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[Music]

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[Applause]

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welcome back to the UFO Rabbit Hole

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podcast I'm your host Kelly Chase

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first of all I just want to thank you

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guys so much for all of the incredible

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feedback that I've gotten about episode

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19. I've honestly never gotten such an

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overwhelming response so thank you to

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everyone who reached out I'm really

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excited that episode 19 resonated

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because it's going to set the stage for

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the podcast moving forward investigating

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the reality of the UFO phenomenon

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inevitably brings you to a place where

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you begin to investigate the nature of

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reality itself the ideas from here on

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out are only going to get bigger and

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more challenging and I couldn't be more

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stoked that so many of you seem more

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than ready to go there with me there

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will be two more episodes in that series

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and I'm working hard to get those to you

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guys as soon as possible but as I'm sure

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you can imagine they are fairly

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Technical and so the writing is taking

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some time but in the meantime I have

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some bonus content to share with you

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that'll give you a look behind the

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scenes at the other big project I'm

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working on right now organizing the Ohio

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UFO Heritage conference at the historic

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Hope Hotel at right Patterson Air Force

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Base that's right we're taking a UFO

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conference literally to the gates of

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Wright-Patt now if you're newer to the

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subject and maybe not as familiar with

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why Wright-Patterson Air Force Base is

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significant to the history and lore

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surrounding the UFO phenomenon no

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worries I have another bonus episode

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coming out a few weeks from today where

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we will do a deep dive into the history

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of the base to get you up to speed I had

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the opportunity to interview researcher

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and co-author of 12 books including UFO

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Secrets inside Wright-Patterson Thomas

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Carey about his decades researching the

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base and the truly stunning Revelations

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that he and his co-author Don Schmidt

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uncovered I can't wait to share that

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with you next Thursday but in the

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meantime what you need to know is this

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before there was an Area 51 there was

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Hangar 18 at Wright-Patterson Air Force

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Base in Fairborn Ohio and as a lifelong

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ohioan I'm excited to see fairborne take

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its rightful place as is one of the

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major meccas for inquiry and activism

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for all those interested in the UFO

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phenomenon the Ohio UFO Heritage

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conference is hopefully the first step

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to making that dream a reality and I

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couldn't be more thrilled to be involved

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in bringing this incredible conference

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to life

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we definitely felt the pressure given

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the location to deliver an All-Star

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lineup of speakers and I'm proud to say

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that we've managed to do exactly that

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the conference is divided into two parts

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and it will kick off on Friday May 5th

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with the Consciousness Symposium many

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who investigate the UFO phenomenon find

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themselves exactly where we found

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ourselves in episode 19 with the

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realization that the implications of the

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phenomenon are far more vast and

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profound than the recognition that we

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aren't alone we're left grappling with

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larger questions about the nature of

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Consciousness and reality itself the

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Consciousness Symposium is intended to

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speak to those larger questions and to

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provide those who attend with actionable

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insights to help them navigate these

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deep and murky Waters the speakers that

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we have lined up for this event include

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Jay Christopher King co-founder and

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director of the experiencer group and

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co-founder of the inquire anomalous

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conference Series in New York City I was

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lucky enough to be invited by Jay and

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James Ian doley to co-host the first two

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inquire anomalous events alongside

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Priscilla Stone and I was so inspired by

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what they created in New York that I

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knew I had to come back and do something

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similar in my own backyard something

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that I admire so much about what Jay and

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James have done with their conference

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series is that they have completely

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turned away from the more carnival style

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ufootainment approach to holding these

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gatherings and instead decided to

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reimagine what a ufological conference

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could be the events that they have put

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on have featured some of the biggest

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names in the space alongside

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lesser-known researchers who are doing

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truly cutting-edge work in the field for

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a rigorous academic inquiry into UFOs

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and other anomalous phenomena these

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gatherings have served as a Meeting of

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Minds and an important Catalyst within

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the community sparking further

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collaboration across the field it's a

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big deal and it's exactly what the

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community needs right now and I'm

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honored and humbled to have the

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opportunity to follow in their footsteps

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and create something similar in Ohio and

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I'm grateful to all of the organizers

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involved with this conference for

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sharing that vision and also to Jay who

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has been honestly an invaluable resource

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and an amazing friend to me through this

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whole process we also have my friend

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Darren King AKA XO academian from the

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phenomenal point of convergence and

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liminal frames podcasts Darren has

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really emerged as a leader in the

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community over the last couple of years

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with his rigorous and fearless approach

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to the many topics that converge the

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intersection of Consciousness and the

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phenomenon what I love about Darren's

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work is that he isn't just laying out a

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coherent narrative about where we've

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been but is actively working on building

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the scaffolding of what's to come it's

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wonderful to have him involved we also

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have Phil Ford and JF Martel from what

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is perhaps my favorite podcast of all

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time weird studies Phil Ford is a

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professor of Music at the Indiana

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University Jacobs School of Music and

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his co-host J.F Martel is the author of

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The phenomenal reclaiming art in the age

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of artifice together they have created

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one of the great masterpieces of the

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weirdosphere with weird studies I can't

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recommend it highly enough though they

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don't often deal directly with the UFO

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phenomenon their unique approach to

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dissecting the weird in all aspects of

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Life lends itself especially well to the

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kind of conversation that we're hoping

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to present at the Consciousness

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Symposium and I will actually be

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speaking at the Consciousness Symposium

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as well this will actually be the first

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time that I'm presenting my own work I'm

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really looking forward to sharing that

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will wrap up the Consciousness Symposium

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early on Friday evening and then it'll

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be time for part two which will kick off

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on Friday night with a private screening

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of the groundbreaking documentary moment

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of contact with director James Fox if

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you haven't seen moment of contact yet

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it will absolutely blow you away James

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spent over a decade researching a case

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in Brazil where a UFO is reported to

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have crashed outside of a small town in

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the 90s and at least one alien being was

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reportedly seen and later captured James

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relentlessly tracked down this case for

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years interviewing many of the key

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witnesses to this event and the result

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is this breathtaking film I'm honestly

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excited just to watch it with so many

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other UFO enthusiasts but to be able to

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have James Fox there in the room as well

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is such a cool opportunity and James

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will be taking questions on the film

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during an hour-long q a session on

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Saturday

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Micah is the co-founder of debrief media

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and the co-host of the wonderful podcast

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the Micah Hanks program while the

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mainstream media has been asleep at the

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wheel with what is undoubtedly the

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biggest story of the century Micah along

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with a small handful of intrepid

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investigative journalists have continued

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to do the work necessary to push this

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topic forward and to demand answers from

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our elected officials the reporting

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that's been done on debrief media is

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second to none and if you aren't already

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following their work it's time to start

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we'll also have the legendary Dr Michael

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P Masters the man who has literally

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written the book on the extra Tempest

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real or future human model actually he's

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written two books about it Dr Masters is

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a professor of biological anthropology

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at Montana Technological University he

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drew on his expertise in that field to

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develop the premise of these books that

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UFOs and aliens may be our human

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descendants returning from the future to

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visit and study their own hominin

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evolutionary past

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and although that idea can be a little

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challenging for many at first I have to

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say that not only are Mike's arguments

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really compelling but I continue to come

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across more and more evidence that makes

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me think that we need to give the extra

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tempestrial model serious consideration

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and who better to learn from on this

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topic than the man himself

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we'll also have Dr Diana walsh-pasulka

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who I'm sure you're all quite familiar

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with by now as I featured her work in

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several episodes of the podcast and she

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recently appeared in an interview in

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episode 17. Dr pasoka is the chair of

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the Department of philosophy and

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religion at UNC Wilmington and is the

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author of American Cosmic UFOs religion

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technology which if you haven't read at

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this point you need to press pause and

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go fix that right now I recommend that

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book more than any other I've probably

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bought and given away more than 10

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copies already I'm telling you if you

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want to understand what's going on with

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UFOs you have to read American Cosmic Dr

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pasulka however will be the first to

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tell you that she doesn't consider

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herself to be a ufologist and she

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doesn't usually do these type of events

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so I am absolutely Beyond honored that

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she agreed to join us this is a rare

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opportunity that you're not going to

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want to miss

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and finally we have the man the myth the

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legend himself Mr Bryce Sable if you

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spent any time in the UFO world at all

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you almost certainly know Bryce from his

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phenomenal need to know podcast which he

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co-hosts with a gentleman who is quite

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the legend himself Ross coldheart Bryce

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has had a long and fascinating career at

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the intersection of ufology in Hollywood

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which included creating the landmark

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Alien Invasion series Dark Skies he's

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honestly been involved with more major

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projects than I even have time to name

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and he has incredible stories to go

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along with all of them in his talk he'll

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be exploring the relationship between

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entertainment media and the UFO

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phenomenon and I can't imagine a better

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person to help us navigate those Waters

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so that is our incredible lineup tickets

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are on sale now at ufoheritage.com you

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can find the link in the description

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below we have both in person and live

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stream tickets available and you can

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choose whether you want to attend all of

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00:10:49,370 --> 00:10:47,220
the events or you can buy tickets for

276
00:10:51,470 --> 00:10:49,380
the Consciousness symposium M and the

277
00:10:53,569 --> 00:10:51,480
main UFO conference separately if you so

278
00:10:55,610 --> 00:10:53,579
choose the conference is being held at

279
00:10:58,009 --> 00:10:55,620
the historic Hope Hotel the conference

280
00:10:59,329 --> 00:10:58,019
center is absolutely gorgeous and

281
00:11:01,370 --> 00:10:59,339
there's a large restaurant called

282
00:11:04,009 --> 00:11:01,380
Packy's Bar and Grill on site where you

283
00:11:05,870 --> 00:11:04,019
can mingle and grab some food and when

284
00:11:07,610 --> 00:11:05,880
we say that the Hope Hotel is at the

285
00:11:10,370 --> 00:11:07,620
gates of Wright-Patterson Air Force Base

286
00:11:12,110 --> 00:11:10,380
we really mean it it's inside the first

287
00:11:14,690 --> 00:11:12,120
set of gates on the base and just

288
00:11:16,310 --> 00:11:14,700
outside of security so literally we'll

289
00:11:18,889 --> 00:11:16,320
be as close as you can get without

290
00:11:21,290 --> 00:11:18,899
having a badge I'm honestly so excited

291
00:11:22,610 --> 00:11:21,300
for this event I can't even tell you the

292
00:11:24,470 --> 00:11:22,620
speakers are going to be phenomenal

293
00:11:26,269 --> 00:11:24,480
without question but the thing that

294
00:11:28,009 --> 00:11:26,279
excites me the most about these events

295
00:11:29,870 --> 00:11:28,019
is the sense of community and

296
00:11:31,670 --> 00:11:29,880
camaraderie that one feels when you get

297
00:11:33,829 --> 00:11:31,680
together with a bunch of like-minded

298
00:11:35,930 --> 00:11:33,839
people we're intentionally building in

299
00:11:38,150 --> 00:11:35,940
as much time as possible during the day

300
00:11:40,190 --> 00:11:38,160
for people to talk and connect with each

301
00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:40,200
other and if you're able to join us I

302
00:11:44,389 --> 00:11:41,880
can almost guarantee that you will walk

303
00:11:46,310 --> 00:11:44,399
away with lifelong friendships and

304
00:11:48,110 --> 00:11:46,320
that's what this is all about right the

305
00:11:50,569 --> 00:11:48,120
friends we make along the way sorry

306
00:11:52,630 --> 00:11:50,579
sorry I couldn't help myself but once

307
00:11:55,250 --> 00:11:52,640
again those tickets are on sale at

308
00:11:57,230 --> 00:11:55,260
ufoheritage.com and I hope to see you

309
00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:57,240
there and with the rest of our time

310
00:12:01,670 --> 00:11:59,519
today I want to introduce you to some of

311
00:12:03,350 --> 00:12:01,680
these incredible people I was lucky

312
00:12:05,930 --> 00:12:03,360
enough to get to sit down for short

313
00:12:08,810 --> 00:12:05,940
conversations with Dr Michael Masters

314
00:12:10,850 --> 00:12:08,820
Bryce Sable and Phil and JF from weird

315
00:12:12,530 --> 00:12:10,860
studies and I'm so excited to share

316
00:12:14,509 --> 00:12:12,540
those conversations with you in just a

317
00:12:16,370 --> 00:12:14,519
moment but first I want to take the

318
00:12:17,990 --> 00:12:16,380
opportunity to introduce you to one of

319
00:12:21,170 --> 00:12:18,000
the masterminds behind this whole event

320
00:12:22,850 --> 00:12:21,180
John Horvath John reached out to me back

321
00:12:24,769 --> 00:12:22,860
in December asking if I'd like to be

322
00:12:26,389 --> 00:12:24,779
involved in organizing a conference at

323
00:12:28,730 --> 00:12:26,399
the gates of Wright-Patterson Air Force

324
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,740
Base and I couldn't say yes fast enough

325
00:12:32,630 --> 00:12:31,200
John is such a cool guy and we've become

326
00:12:34,610 --> 00:12:32,640
really good friends over these past few

327
00:12:35,930 --> 00:12:34,620
months I've been so impressed with how

328
00:12:37,790 --> 00:12:35,940
he's managed to bring this whole thing

329
00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:37,800
to life and I really wanted you guys to

330
00:12:43,069 --> 00:12:39,480
get a chance to hear from him directly

331
00:12:45,949 --> 00:12:43,079
so here's my dude John Horvath

332
00:12:47,629 --> 00:12:45,959
well hello John welcome to the podcast

333
00:12:50,150 --> 00:12:47,639
I'm so excited you could join me today

334
00:12:52,490 --> 00:12:50,160
how are you doing I am doing great Kelly

335
00:12:53,930 --> 00:12:52,500
and I am very excited to talk to you

336
00:12:55,730 --> 00:12:53,940
today

337
00:12:57,110 --> 00:12:55,740
oh we're gonna have the best time John

338
00:13:00,110 --> 00:12:57,120
and I always have the best time John and

339
00:13:02,210 --> 00:13:00,120
I talked all the time now John is the

340
00:13:04,670 --> 00:13:02,220
guy who brought me into this whole crazy

341
00:13:07,129 --> 00:13:04,680
situation with bringing this conference

342
00:13:08,569 --> 00:13:07,139
right to the gates of Ray Patterson and

343
00:13:10,190 --> 00:13:08,579
so I just wanted you guys to meet him

344
00:13:11,569 --> 00:13:10,200
because I have had such a wonderful time

345
00:13:13,069 --> 00:13:11,579
getting to know John and I wanted you

346
00:13:15,110 --> 00:13:13,079
guys to meet him as well

347
00:13:17,030 --> 00:13:15,120
well it was all about sending the right

348
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,040
email to the right person and the

349
00:13:20,930 --> 00:13:19,440
universe certainly answered that so uh

350
00:13:22,550 --> 00:13:20,940
great I'm excited to answer any

351
00:13:24,710 --> 00:13:22,560
questions you have

352
00:13:26,030 --> 00:13:24,720
awesome awesome well I would love for

353
00:13:27,889 --> 00:13:26,040
you to share with people just sort of

354
00:13:29,449 --> 00:13:27,899
like where did this whole UFO thing

355
00:13:31,490 --> 00:13:29,459
start for you even before the conference

356
00:13:35,329 --> 00:13:31,500
what got you into UFOs yeah it's a great

357
00:13:37,670 --> 00:13:35,339
question I am an art bell child a child

358
00:13:40,730 --> 00:13:37,680
of the 80s you know I kind of uh

359
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:40,740
got hooked early on in life I was in

360
00:13:46,970 --> 00:13:43,920
fact it was my paper route in the very

361
00:13:48,769 --> 00:13:46,980
cold Ohio warnings that got me out of

362
00:13:51,110 --> 00:13:48,779
bed in time to catch sometimes the tail

363
00:13:53,629 --> 00:13:51,120
end of the show or oftentimes I would

364
00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:53,639
stay up late and listen to it and you

365
00:13:58,310 --> 00:13:55,440
know the subject just fascinated me from

366
00:14:01,670 --> 00:13:58,320
day one it didn't take long for that to

367
00:14:03,290 --> 00:14:01,680
kind of grow and Blossom over the years

368
00:14:05,690 --> 00:14:03,300
um and just something that has stuck

369
00:14:07,790 --> 00:14:05,700
with me forever this phenomenon is to me

370
00:14:10,009 --> 00:14:07,800
the most fascinating subject that I

371
00:14:13,790 --> 00:14:10,019
think we can address

372
00:14:15,230 --> 00:14:13,800
yeah I absolutely agree and I love the

373
00:14:17,150 --> 00:14:15,240
story if you wouldn't mind sharing it

374
00:14:18,949 --> 00:14:17,160
live how this whole conference came

375
00:14:20,449 --> 00:14:18,959
together because when you start working

376
00:14:22,190 --> 00:14:20,459
in this space you immediately start

377
00:14:23,990 --> 00:14:22,200
finding that things come together in the

378
00:14:25,370 --> 00:14:24,000
craziest ways and I love the story of

379
00:14:28,129 --> 00:14:25,380
how this conference came to be if you

380
00:14:31,730 --> 00:14:28,139
don't mind sharing it sure yeah well it

381
00:14:33,230 --> 00:14:31,740
all started with uh I needed to sell an

382
00:14:36,230 --> 00:14:33,240
RV

383
00:14:38,870 --> 00:14:36,240
and I live in a very small town in Ohio

384
00:14:40,850 --> 00:14:38,880
it's actually right outside the small

385
00:14:44,269 --> 00:14:40,860
town that's outside of Wright-Patterson

386
00:14:46,250 --> 00:14:44,279
Air Force Base I had made a contact with

387
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:46,260
a gentleman who owns a high visibility

388
00:14:51,769 --> 00:14:48,959
lot and a busy part of the street and

389
00:14:54,829 --> 00:14:51,779
asked if I could put an RV there to sell

390
00:14:57,350 --> 00:14:54,839
and he noticed on my vehicle when I met

391
00:15:00,350 --> 00:14:57,360
him that I had an alien sticker and Bill

392
00:15:01,730 --> 00:15:00,360
is his name Bill kachoki part of a big

393
00:15:04,250 --> 00:15:01,740
part of how we've been able to get to

394
00:15:07,250 --> 00:15:04,260
where we're at today and it turned out

395
00:15:08,930 --> 00:15:07,260
he had the same passion I did we're both

396
00:15:11,329 --> 00:15:08,940
veterans I served in the Marine Corps

397
00:15:13,189 --> 00:15:11,339
Bill served in the Air Force and so

398
00:15:16,129 --> 00:15:13,199
immediately we were able to establish a

399
00:15:17,569 --> 00:15:16,139
rapport and just kind of taking deep

400
00:15:19,250 --> 00:15:17,579
dives into the subject and it's

401
00:15:20,930 --> 00:15:19,260
interesting when you meet somebody for

402
00:15:23,629 --> 00:15:20,940
the first time who's actually interested

403
00:15:26,509 --> 00:15:23,639
in this subject it's almost like a sigh

404
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,519
of relief escalation like okay I can be

405
00:15:30,889 --> 00:15:28,800
comfortable I can talk about this and

406
00:15:33,110 --> 00:15:30,899
Bill and I hit it off right away and as

407
00:15:35,990 --> 00:15:33,120
it turns out he had some very info

408
00:15:38,810 --> 00:15:36,000
influential friends and contacts in the

409
00:15:41,810 --> 00:15:38,820
local community one being his former

410
00:15:43,730 --> 00:15:41,820
commanding officer was the Chamber of

411
00:15:46,009 --> 00:15:43,740
Commerce president the town right

412
00:15:47,689 --> 00:15:46,019
outside of wright-patterson's gates and

413
00:15:50,689 --> 00:15:47,699
we kind of

414
00:15:53,030 --> 00:15:50,699
brought the idea to their doorstep and

415
00:15:56,269 --> 00:15:53,040
got the affirmation we needed that this

416
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:56,279
is a great idea and made steps to book

417
00:16:01,189 --> 00:15:58,079
The Hope Hotel where the conference is

418
00:16:03,650 --> 00:16:01,199
at kind of put all the the horses before

419
00:16:05,509 --> 00:16:03,660
the carts and he just said let's go for

420
00:16:07,670 --> 00:16:05,519
it this is something that absolutely

421
00:16:10,730 --> 00:16:07,680
deserves a seat at the table in the

422
00:16:12,110 --> 00:16:10,740
conversation is our area it's the you

423
00:16:15,410 --> 00:16:12,120
know for lack of a better term it's the

424
00:16:18,230 --> 00:16:15,420
Roswell of the Midwest our story is in

425
00:16:20,930 --> 00:16:18,240
the same breath as so many that we've

426
00:16:23,449 --> 00:16:20,940
listened to in this community and

427
00:16:25,370 --> 00:16:23,459
um all the stars alive Kelly I emailed

428
00:16:27,710 --> 00:16:25,380
you and you have been able to put

429
00:16:29,689 --> 00:16:27,720
passion to action and now we're here

430
00:16:31,970 --> 00:16:29,699
right now

431
00:16:33,650 --> 00:16:31,980
well I love that and something I've been

432
00:16:35,090 --> 00:16:33,660
so struck by when I've come down to

433
00:16:36,230 --> 00:16:35,100
visit and you know we've been working on

434
00:16:37,970 --> 00:16:36,240
this conference together now for a

435
00:16:40,490 --> 00:16:37,980
couple of months it's just the

436
00:16:42,170 --> 00:16:40,500
collective will of the area obviously

437
00:16:44,090 --> 00:16:42,180
there's some very dedicated hard-working

438
00:16:45,769 --> 00:16:44,100
people involved yourself and Bill and

439
00:16:47,749 --> 00:16:45,779
Dan and Megan and there's so many other

440
00:16:49,850 --> 00:16:47,759
people have been working with us to make

441
00:16:51,470 --> 00:16:49,860
this happen and so if you could maybe

442
00:16:53,629 --> 00:16:51,480
just give people a little bit of a

443
00:16:55,910 --> 00:16:53,639
feeling of what is it like to live in

444
00:16:57,769 --> 00:16:55,920
the shadow of Wright Patterson and why

445
00:16:59,870 --> 00:16:57,779
is this so important to the region to

446
00:17:03,769 --> 00:16:59,880
have this conversation finally

447
00:17:06,110 --> 00:17:03,779
well part of it is that this topic is it

448
00:17:08,510 --> 00:17:06,120
it's okay to talk about now you know we

449
00:17:10,909 --> 00:17:08,520
have the seal of approval for people to

450
00:17:12,949 --> 00:17:10,919
come out of their corners and throw in

451
00:17:16,069 --> 00:17:12,959
their two cents and our local community

452
00:17:18,350 --> 00:17:16,079
is full of people that have stories to

453
00:17:20,150 --> 00:17:18,360
tell about their connections with the

454
00:17:22,610 --> 00:17:20,160
Air Force with Wright-Patterson Air

455
00:17:24,590 --> 00:17:22,620
Force Base there are speculation that's

456
00:17:27,409 --> 00:17:24,600
part of what's really fueling the

457
00:17:30,110 --> 00:17:27,419
process and another inspiring thing that

458
00:17:33,049 --> 00:17:30,120
I was able to actually take part of uh

459
00:17:35,029 --> 00:17:33,059
uh mid last year was a surprise of a

460
00:17:37,370 --> 00:17:35,039
trip to Roswell New Mexico that my wife

461
00:17:39,710 --> 00:17:37,380
arranged for me and her for our 20th

462
00:17:43,010 --> 00:17:39,720
wedding anniversary and that Festival

463
00:17:45,650 --> 00:17:43,020
was something that I felt would

464
00:17:47,690 --> 00:17:45,660
absolutely over time be something that

465
00:17:49,789 --> 00:17:47,700
we could count on as a local community

466
00:17:52,250 --> 00:17:49,799
because we all struggle we're small

467
00:17:55,070 --> 00:17:52,260
towns in Ohio we'll take we'll take

468
00:17:58,789 --> 00:17:55,080
visitors that are here to see something

469
00:18:01,549 --> 00:17:58,799
interesting anytime and I think

470
00:18:03,529 --> 00:18:01,559
with Wright Patterson as the backdrop

471
00:18:05,930 --> 00:18:03,539
and a community that's willing people

472
00:18:08,810 --> 00:18:05,940
that are really open-minded in an area

473
00:18:11,570 --> 00:18:08,820
even even pragmatic

474
00:18:14,090 --> 00:18:11,580
very minded people were excited to talk

475
00:18:16,490 --> 00:18:14,100
about this it was just a recipe for

476
00:18:18,529 --> 00:18:16,500
success and people are coming out of the

477
00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:18,539
quote-unquote woodwork putting their

478
00:18:22,250 --> 00:18:20,400
hands in the air saying I'm interested I

479
00:18:24,230 --> 00:18:22,260
want to help I want to attend your event

480
00:18:26,690 --> 00:18:24,240
I guess it's a little overwhelming but

481
00:18:29,029 --> 00:18:26,700
I'm happy to see that we're all finally

482
00:18:31,490 --> 00:18:29,039
coming out of the Shadows

483
00:18:32,930 --> 00:18:31,500
absolutely well I've been so impressed

484
00:18:34,730 --> 00:18:32,940
with how you've been able to put this

485
00:18:36,169 --> 00:18:34,740
all together and make all the

486
00:18:39,049 --> 00:18:36,179
connections that have needed to happen

487
00:18:41,510 --> 00:18:39,059
to make this happen I get emails all the

488
00:18:43,730 --> 00:18:41,520
time from people who are wanting to get

489
00:18:45,470 --> 00:18:43,740
involved in ufology and they don't

490
00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:45,480
really know where to start and I always

491
00:18:49,669 --> 00:18:47,220
try to let people know like don't wait

492
00:18:51,230 --> 00:18:49,679
for somebody to give you a seat at the

493
00:18:53,810 --> 00:18:51,240
table you've got to build your own table

494
00:18:55,909 --> 00:18:53,820
right so what advice do you have for

495
00:18:58,250 --> 00:18:55,919
people who are maybe enthusiasts of this

496
00:19:00,950 --> 00:18:58,260
topic who want to get more involved but

497
00:19:03,470 --> 00:19:00,960
don't know where to even start

498
00:19:06,830 --> 00:19:03,480
yeah that's a great question because

499
00:19:09,310 --> 00:19:06,840
that's me and I had failed attempts for

500
00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:09,320
meetup groups failed attempts at

501
00:19:15,049 --> 00:19:12,120
engaging in the conversation on a

502
00:19:18,350 --> 00:19:15,059
Discord server I am not a social media

503
00:19:20,810 --> 00:19:18,360
Powerhouse Kelly I allow my wife will

504
00:19:23,029 --> 00:19:20,820
fill me in on the details that are

505
00:19:25,430 --> 00:19:23,039
important to our local community see

506
00:19:27,650 --> 00:19:25,440
Kelly I think that

507
00:19:30,409 --> 00:19:27,660
your passion

508
00:19:34,070 --> 00:19:30,419
will manifest

509
00:19:38,110 --> 00:19:34,080
something if it passes the purity test

510
00:19:42,110 --> 00:19:38,120
which to me is just a hundred percent

511
00:19:45,409 --> 00:19:42,120
in getting people together into a room

512
00:19:47,590 --> 00:19:45,419
into an area into an environment that is

513
00:19:50,330 --> 00:19:47,600
kind of free of the drama free of

514
00:19:52,370 --> 00:19:50,340
agendas and just see what happens I mean

515
00:19:54,350 --> 00:19:52,380
a lot of luck is there too Kelly

516
00:19:55,909 --> 00:19:54,360
um I'm meeting you and I mean you're

517
00:19:58,549 --> 00:19:55,919
understating your involvement in this

518
00:20:00,289 --> 00:19:58,559
highly but meeting you and you helping

519
00:20:02,450 --> 00:20:00,299
us point in the right direction of

520
00:20:04,669 --> 00:20:02,460
contacting speakers and so forth was

521
00:20:07,010 --> 00:20:04,679
amazing and is amazing but I think at

522
00:20:09,890 --> 00:20:07,020
the end of the day I don't begin with

523
00:20:11,990 --> 00:20:09,900
the end in mind you know just begin just

524
00:20:14,690 --> 00:20:12,000
have the passion and see where it takes

525
00:20:16,610 --> 00:20:14,700
you I wish I could offer more pragmatic

526
00:20:18,650 --> 00:20:16,620
advice than that some of it's a little

527
00:20:20,390 --> 00:20:18,660
dumb luck but that's pretty cool when

528
00:20:21,770 --> 00:20:20,400
you get like-minded people all rolling

529
00:20:24,230 --> 00:20:21,780
in the same direction

530
00:20:26,090 --> 00:20:24,240
I so agree and some of it is luck maybe

531
00:20:28,909 --> 00:20:26,100
everybody should put an alien sticker on

532
00:20:30,409 --> 00:20:28,919
their car no that's part of it I think

533
00:20:32,750 --> 00:20:30,419
there might be a little maybe secret

534
00:20:34,250 --> 00:20:32,760
sticker we should just have available to

535
00:20:38,150 --> 00:20:34,260
people in the community so we know we're

536
00:20:42,950 --> 00:20:41,510
absolutely well John I am thrilled to be

537
00:20:44,810 --> 00:20:42,960
involved with this I'm so glad you were

538
00:20:46,490 --> 00:20:44,820
able to chat today

539
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:46,500
um very excited to be down there with

540
00:20:50,390 --> 00:20:48,480
you in May you guys will see John on

541
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:50,400
stage at the conference and all over the

542
00:20:54,409 --> 00:20:52,260
place so yeah make sure you come and say

543
00:20:57,470 --> 00:20:54,419
hi all right Kelly the pleasure is all

544
00:21:00,770 --> 00:20:57,480
mine we have one amazing event that is

545
00:21:03,470 --> 00:21:00,780
is going to no doubt have staying power

546
00:21:06,169 --> 00:21:03,480
and really get the attendees an

547
00:21:09,049 --> 00:21:06,179
opportunity to just sit back and absorb

548
00:21:09,970 --> 00:21:09,059
a lot of different perspectives and walk

549
00:21:13,250 --> 00:21:09,980
away

550
00:21:19,549 --> 00:21:13,260
knowing that they're at least a part

551
00:21:21,230 --> 00:21:19,559
of a mindset that is capable of

552
00:21:24,289 --> 00:21:21,240
meeting

553
00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:24,299
peacefully together and learn about

554
00:21:28,250 --> 00:21:26,340
amazing things about this phenomenon

555
00:21:31,020 --> 00:21:28,260
absolutely thank you talk to you soon

556
00:21:46,789 --> 00:21:31,030
bye

557
00:21:46,799 --> 00:21:54,390
foreign

558
00:21:54,400 --> 00:22:20,690
[Music]

559
00:22:24,830 --> 00:22:22,610
Dr Masters thank you so much for being

560
00:22:27,110 --> 00:22:24,840
here with me today we are so excited to

561
00:22:28,850 --> 00:22:27,120
have you for our conference I know that

562
00:22:30,770 --> 00:22:28,860
within the UFO Community you're very

563
00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:30,780
well known you've obviously written the

564
00:22:34,730 --> 00:22:32,220
book on the extra Tempest real

565
00:22:37,010 --> 00:22:34,740
hypothesis but for anyone who might not

566
00:22:38,330 --> 00:22:37,020
be familiar with that could you do a

567
00:22:40,730 --> 00:22:38,340
quick little explainer what is the extra

568
00:22:43,610 --> 00:22:40,740
terrestrial hypothesis

569
00:22:45,049 --> 00:22:43,620
yeah absolutely and thanks Kelly I

570
00:22:46,370 --> 00:22:45,059
appreciate you having me to this

571
00:22:48,409 --> 00:22:46,380
conference I'm really looking forward to

572
00:22:50,330 --> 00:22:48,419
it it seems like a really unique event

573
00:22:53,029 --> 00:22:50,340
and I know there's a lot of Buzz around

574
00:22:56,510 --> 00:22:53,039
it a lot of people are excited so should

575
00:22:58,909 --> 00:22:56,520
be a really informative and fun time so

576
00:23:01,750 --> 00:22:58,919
the expert tempestro model is just the

577
00:23:04,190 --> 00:23:01,760
simple idea that rather than being

578
00:23:06,649 --> 00:23:04,200
extraterrestrial in nature that these

579
00:23:09,350 --> 00:23:06,659
visitors May in fact be us from the

580
00:23:11,810 --> 00:23:09,360
future coming back through time to visit

581
00:23:14,330 --> 00:23:11,820
and study their own evolutionary past so

582
00:23:17,390 --> 00:23:14,340
the origin of the word itself just takes

583
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:17,400
out Terror meaning Earth for these

584
00:23:21,289 --> 00:23:18,960
visitors coming from outside of Earth

585
00:23:23,570 --> 00:23:21,299
and replaces it with the Latin root Tom

586
00:23:25,850 --> 00:23:23,580
to indicate that they may be Earthly

587
00:23:27,890 --> 00:23:25,860
they may live here on the same Planet

588
00:23:30,049 --> 00:23:27,900
just in a different point in

589
00:23:32,690 --> 00:23:30,059
four-dimensional space time in the block

590
00:23:34,730 --> 00:23:32,700
Universe you might say so it's a pretty

591
00:23:36,289 --> 00:23:34,740
intuitive idea we know we're here we

592
00:23:38,570 --> 00:23:36,299
know we've had a long history on this

593
00:23:40,430 --> 00:23:38,580
planet and that we can see how our

594
00:23:44,090 --> 00:23:40,440
morphological form and our technology

595
00:23:46,430 --> 00:23:44,100
have evolved and the accelerated in that

596
00:23:49,310 --> 00:23:46,440
evolutionary process throughout time so

597
00:23:51,409 --> 00:23:49,320
really it just takes what we know pushes

598
00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:51,419
the clock forward a little bit and if

599
00:23:54,350 --> 00:23:52,740
there's nothing in the laws of physics

600
00:23:57,830 --> 00:23:54,360
that prohibits backward time travel

601
00:23:59,570 --> 00:23:57,840
which his assists agree there isn't then

602
00:24:01,669 --> 00:23:59,580
you can make the argument that at some

603
00:24:04,370 --> 00:24:01,679
point we'll start doing it and we will

604
00:24:06,169 --> 00:24:04,380
see ourselves in the past and I argue

605
00:24:08,090 --> 00:24:06,179
that's what the UFO phenomenon is or at

606
00:24:11,210 --> 00:24:08,100
least a big part of it I don't discount

607
00:24:13,850 --> 00:24:11,220
other models and I still think the

608
00:24:16,490 --> 00:24:13,860
Extraterrestrial models on the table as

609
00:24:18,470 --> 00:24:16,500
well but as far as what people describe

610
00:24:20,029 --> 00:24:18,480
seeing the physiological form of these

611
00:24:22,370 --> 00:24:20,039
visitors their advanced technology

612
00:24:24,529 --> 00:24:22,380
that's so similar to our own we have to

613
00:24:26,450 --> 00:24:24,539
wonder if maybe they are just us from a

614
00:24:28,130 --> 00:24:26,460
more distant point in our own future

615
00:24:30,110 --> 00:24:28,140
both the evolutionarily and

616
00:24:32,870 --> 00:24:30,120
technologically

617
00:24:35,149 --> 00:24:32,880
it's a fascinating hypothesis and I'll

618
00:24:36,649 --> 00:24:35,159
admit that when I first started kind of

619
00:24:38,390 --> 00:24:36,659
going down this rabbit hole that was

620
00:24:40,010 --> 00:24:38,400
more resistant to that thought that

621
00:24:42,049 --> 00:24:40,020
hypothesis was one that was not my

622
00:24:43,549 --> 00:24:42,059
favorite but obviously after reading

623
00:24:44,930 --> 00:24:43,559
your book and starting to hear I mean

624
00:24:47,090 --> 00:24:44,940
even people like Ross coldheart come

625
00:24:48,529 --> 00:24:47,100
forward and say things like but he has

626
00:24:50,570 --> 00:24:48,539
sources who are telling him that this is

627
00:24:52,610 --> 00:24:50,580
the belief of people within the Pentagon

628
00:24:54,470 --> 00:24:52,620
it really kind of turned my view around

629
00:24:56,270 --> 00:24:54,480
and so do you feel like this is an idea

630
00:24:57,590 --> 00:24:56,280
that people do maybe struggle with it

631
00:24:59,270 --> 00:24:57,600
first just because

632
00:25:00,590 --> 00:24:59,280
maybe if we were thinking aliens and

633
00:25:02,510 --> 00:25:00,600
then it's like Oh you mean it's just us

634
00:25:04,370 --> 00:25:02,520
have you had that experience

635
00:25:06,590 --> 00:25:04,380
oh absolutely

636
00:25:09,710 --> 00:25:06,600
um and it's interesting too because

637
00:25:11,330 --> 00:25:09,720
the Extraterrestrial model that's not a

638
00:25:13,070 --> 00:25:11,340
hypothesis because it can't be tested

639
00:25:15,470 --> 00:25:13,080
but this idea that they're coming from

640
00:25:17,810 --> 00:25:15,480
the stars is intuitive it makes sense we

641
00:25:20,390 --> 00:25:17,820
for Millennia have seen these craft

642
00:25:22,549 --> 00:25:20,400
descending from the skies there's Stars

643
00:25:25,250 --> 00:25:22,559
up there we assume they come from a

644
00:25:27,049 --> 00:25:25,260
planet orbiting one of those stars but

645
00:25:28,310 --> 00:25:27,059
when you start to think about the

646
00:25:30,590 --> 00:25:28,320
probability that you would have

647
00:25:32,570 --> 00:25:30,600
something so similar to ourselves evolve

648
00:25:34,310 --> 00:25:32,580
on another planet in the exact same way

649
00:25:36,590 --> 00:25:34,320
and at the same time they have to

650
00:25:39,289 --> 00:25:36,600
remember that the universe is about 14.5

651
00:25:40,789 --> 00:25:39,299
billion years old so it's unlikely to

652
00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:40,799
get something so close that they could

653
00:25:45,409 --> 00:25:43,200
find us and that just happens to be

654
00:25:47,890 --> 00:25:45,419
slightly more advanced than us and at

655
00:25:50,149 --> 00:25:47,900
the time when they could fight us

656
00:25:52,310 --> 00:25:50,159
concurrently but with a slightly less

657
00:25:53,630 --> 00:25:52,320
advanced technology they could have a

658
00:25:55,010 --> 00:25:53,640
different coding system different

659
00:25:57,350 --> 00:25:55,020
distance from their Sun different

660
00:25:58,850 --> 00:25:57,360
gravity all of these factors would go

661
00:26:00,710 --> 00:25:58,860
into contributing to a different life

662
00:26:03,830 --> 00:26:00,720
form that looks absolutely nothing like

663
00:26:05,510 --> 00:26:03,840
us so even outside of those stumbling

664
00:26:06,769 --> 00:26:05,520
blocks a lot of people struggle with the

665
00:26:08,990 --> 00:26:06,779
time aspect

666
00:26:11,450 --> 00:26:09,000
and most philosophers and physicists

667
00:26:12,950 --> 00:26:11,460
agree that when we understand time

668
00:26:15,110 --> 00:26:12,960
travel in the context of the block

669
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:15,120
Universe everything's self-consistent

670
00:26:19,490 --> 00:26:17,760
you don't have anything that changes in

671
00:26:21,649 --> 00:26:19,500
the past anything that you do and going

672
00:26:23,570 --> 00:26:21,659
back to the past you will have already

673
00:26:25,610 --> 00:26:23,580
done and when you get home everything's

674
00:26:27,289 --> 00:26:25,620
the same as anything that you did in the

675
00:26:30,049 --> 00:26:27,299
past is what you were always going to do

676
00:26:32,930 --> 00:26:30,059
in the block universe so a lot of people

677
00:26:34,850 --> 00:26:32,940
struggle with the the idea in the

678
00:26:37,070 --> 00:26:34,860
context of the Multiverse or multiple

679
00:26:38,210 --> 00:26:37,080
timelines and that just doesn't seem to

680
00:26:41,210 --> 00:26:38,220
be the case there's currently no

681
00:26:43,130 --> 00:26:41,220
evidence for a Multiverse and as I said

682
00:26:45,470 --> 00:26:43,140
previously most agree that we are in a

683
00:26:47,390 --> 00:26:45,480
block universe and once

684
00:26:49,789 --> 00:26:47,400
you understand in that context these

685
00:26:52,310 --> 00:26:49,799
paradoxes seemingly disappear everything

686
00:26:53,630 --> 00:26:52,320
can just naturally be self-consistent

687
00:26:54,710 --> 00:26:53,640
and you don't have to worry about a

688
00:26:56,810 --> 00:26:54,720
change that will then have this

689
00:26:58,190 --> 00:26:56,820
butterfly effect and it works well for

690
00:26:59,630 --> 00:26:58,200
science fiction movies and it's what

691
00:27:01,610 --> 00:26:59,640
we've all come to understand because

692
00:27:03,289 --> 00:27:01,620
it's a lot easier to write a plot with

693
00:27:05,029 --> 00:27:03,299
that idea than it is to make everything

694
00:27:07,190 --> 00:27:05,039
self-consistent there's very few that

695
00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:07,200
have done that I often mention dark

696
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:10,380
German show is a good example of how it

697
00:27:14,570 --> 00:27:12,000
really adhered to this block Universe

698
00:27:16,250 --> 00:27:14,580
model and self-consistency so a lot of

699
00:27:19,250 --> 00:27:16,260
people struggle with the time aspect of

700
00:27:21,409 --> 00:27:19,260
it but really if you dive in to what we

701
00:27:23,870 --> 00:27:21,419
know about the block Universe Model A

702
00:27:26,750 --> 00:27:23,880
lot of those stumbling blocks disappear

703
00:27:29,450 --> 00:27:26,760
it's really interesting I think the idea

704
00:27:33,169 --> 00:27:29,460
that like really brought me around was

705
00:27:34,730 --> 00:27:33,179
the idea that if time travel is ever

706
00:27:37,430 --> 00:27:34,740
possible which as you were alluding to

707
00:27:39,590 --> 00:27:37,440
before we don't have any real indication

708
00:27:41,630 --> 00:27:39,600
that it's not possible if it's not if it

709
00:27:43,130 --> 00:27:41,640
is possible someone somewhere is going

710
00:27:45,049 --> 00:27:43,140
to crack it at some point and basically

711
00:27:47,630 --> 00:27:45,059
if it ever gets cracked they're coming

712
00:27:49,010 --> 00:27:47,640
here now right it's the craziest thing

713
00:27:51,230 --> 00:27:49,020
to think about in terms of time travel

714
00:27:53,750 --> 00:27:51,240
that like if it ever gets cracked that

715
00:27:55,430 --> 00:27:53,760
we're getting people from the future now

716
00:27:58,130 --> 00:27:55,440
which then brings us to the second part

717
00:27:59,870 --> 00:27:58,140
of the model which is as you're talking

718
00:28:00,830 --> 00:27:59,880
about the evidence that they're human if

719
00:28:02,570 --> 00:28:00,840
you could talk a little bit more about

720
00:28:03,890 --> 00:28:02,580
that so we're saying like Okay

721
00:28:06,049 --> 00:28:03,900
potentially they're coming from the

722
00:28:08,690 --> 00:28:06,059
future but then the second part being

723
00:28:10,430 --> 00:28:08,700
but potentially they're also us can you

724
00:28:13,490 --> 00:28:10,440
talk about that a little bit more

725
00:28:16,850 --> 00:28:13,500
yeah I mean that's sort of how I started

726
00:28:19,970 --> 00:28:16,860
in this is from a young age I noticed

727
00:28:22,730 --> 00:28:19,980
glaring homologies synapomorphies

728
00:28:24,769 --> 00:28:22,740
between this other and ourselves and

729
00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:24,779
especially in the context of our

730
00:28:28,610 --> 00:28:26,820
evolutionary past and how we got to be

731
00:28:30,049 --> 00:28:28,620
here and these dominant trends that have

732
00:28:32,029 --> 00:28:30,059
occurred throughout the last six to

733
00:28:33,470 --> 00:28:32,039
eight million years over Evolution

734
00:28:35,810 --> 00:28:33,480
probably the most important one is

735
00:28:37,370 --> 00:28:35,820
bipedalism walking upright that's

736
00:28:39,230 --> 00:28:37,380
actually the trait that defines the

737
00:28:40,850 --> 00:28:39,240
hominin lineage we stood up right

738
00:28:43,190 --> 00:28:40,860
between six and eight million years ago

739
00:28:45,649 --> 00:28:43,200
it ushered in all of these other changes

740
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:45,659
our heads had to rotate down so we could

741
00:28:49,669 --> 00:28:47,279
see where we're going so our visual

742
00:28:52,130 --> 00:28:49,679
plane was in line with the Horizon and

743
00:28:53,930 --> 00:28:52,140
that flexed or basic Cranium it allowed

744
00:28:55,850 --> 00:28:53,940
for more space within the skull where

745
00:28:57,830 --> 00:28:55,860
larger brain could grow and then there's

746
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:57,840
a feedback loop that comes with culture

747
00:29:02,029 --> 00:28:59,760
and sexual selection and mating

748
00:29:04,190 --> 00:29:02,039
behaviors and things like that but also

749
00:29:06,649 --> 00:29:04,200
importantly it freed up our hands so we

750
00:29:09,590 --> 00:29:06,659
could use our hands to further that

751
00:29:12,169 --> 00:29:09,600
brain by making tools and then that

752
00:29:14,029 --> 00:29:12,179
relaxed selective pressures for the

753
00:29:15,470 --> 00:29:14,039
chewing apparatus so we could cut our

754
00:29:17,810 --> 00:29:15,480
food we could cook our food once we

755
00:29:20,149 --> 00:29:17,820
embed at fire but one 0.8 million years

756
00:29:23,090 --> 00:29:20,159
ago so our faces started to get out of

757
00:29:25,430 --> 00:29:23,100
the way of an expanding brain and most

758
00:29:27,830 --> 00:29:25,440
recently we've become globular what's

759
00:29:30,110 --> 00:29:27,840
called neurocranial globularity where

760
00:29:31,850 --> 00:29:30,120
our brains expand medial laterally and

761
00:29:34,669 --> 00:29:31,860
that's one of the most dominant things

762
00:29:36,470 --> 00:29:34,679
described in these Close Encounters is

763
00:29:38,029 --> 00:29:36,480
that you have these archetypal Grays

764
00:29:40,250 --> 00:29:38,039
I've come to believe that this is going

765
00:29:41,630 --> 00:29:40,260
to happen a lot sooner than I previously

766
00:29:44,330 --> 00:29:41,640
thought my first book mostly just

767
00:29:47,210 --> 00:29:44,340
focused on these kind of quintessential

768
00:29:49,010 --> 00:29:47,220
gray aliens but in my most recent book I

769
00:29:51,950 --> 00:29:49,020
found that a lot of them are described

770
00:29:53,810 --> 00:29:51,960
as looking exactly like us so I think it

771
00:29:55,789 --> 00:29:53,820
will happen sooner maybe even within the

772
00:29:57,409 --> 00:29:55,799
next hundred years or so but the

773
00:29:59,049 --> 00:29:57,419
concepts of these long-term evolutionary

774
00:30:01,909 --> 00:29:59,059
Trends we can see how these same

775
00:30:03,649 --> 00:30:01,919
characteristics of our past if

776
00:30:05,450 --> 00:30:03,659
projected into the forward and there's

777
00:30:07,010 --> 00:30:05,460
no reason to think that they would stop

778
00:30:08,930 --> 00:30:07,020
if they do dominate millions and

779
00:30:10,970 --> 00:30:08,940
millions of years of human evolution we

780
00:30:12,710 --> 00:30:10,980
would have bigger rounder heads bigger

781
00:30:15,169 --> 00:30:12,720
eyes smaller faces more advanced

782
00:30:18,230 --> 00:30:15,179
technology but still retain all of these

783
00:30:19,789 --> 00:30:18,240
characteristics that tie us to the

784
00:30:22,730 --> 00:30:19,799
evolution of all animals on this planet

785
00:30:25,669 --> 00:30:22,740
such as being tetrapods having four

786
00:30:27,950 --> 00:30:25,679
limbs panadactly having five digits on

787
00:30:29,930 --> 00:30:27,960
each limb that's also something that's

788
00:30:32,510 --> 00:30:29,940
described in these close encounters so

789
00:30:34,430 --> 00:30:32,520
if we look at the physiological form and

790
00:30:36,889 --> 00:30:34,440
the technology and the craft themselves

791
00:30:39,769 --> 00:30:36,899
a lot of things do seem to indicate that

792
00:30:41,750 --> 00:30:39,779
it's us using time travel technology to

793
00:30:44,450 --> 00:30:41,760
come back and not just here not just now

794
00:30:46,430 --> 00:30:44,460
but for Millennia it's probably the same

795
00:30:48,350 --> 00:30:46,440
phenomenon that we see now just

796
00:30:50,810 --> 00:30:48,360
described by people who didn't have

797
00:30:52,310 --> 00:30:50,820
anything close to the technology that we

798
00:30:55,310 --> 00:30:52,320
do and therefore can't really understand

799
00:30:58,610 --> 00:30:55,320
it in the same way that we've come to

800
00:31:00,830 --> 00:30:58,620
that's fascinating well I am so excited

801
00:31:02,750 --> 00:31:00,840
to see your talk at the conference so

802
00:31:04,310 --> 00:31:02,760
glad that you're going to be joining us

803
00:31:06,049 --> 00:31:04,320
um who are you most excited to see at

804
00:31:09,230 --> 00:31:06,059
the conference

805
00:31:10,730 --> 00:31:09,240
us everybody I love everybody on that

806
00:31:13,070 --> 00:31:10,740
list I was really excited when you

807
00:31:15,769 --> 00:31:13,080
published the lineup because I've gotten

808
00:31:17,690 --> 00:31:15,779
to know one in different capacities

809
00:31:18,950 --> 00:31:17,700
um been to similar talks similar

810
00:31:20,990 --> 00:31:18,960
conferences

811
00:31:23,510 --> 00:31:21,000
got to know each other in a personal

812
00:31:25,070 --> 00:31:23,520
context too so honestly I don't know if

813
00:31:26,570 --> 00:31:25,080
I could pick one I'm stoked about

814
00:31:28,669 --> 00:31:26,580
everybody that's going to be there

815
00:31:30,529 --> 00:31:28,679
that's great I'm so excited I was saying

816
00:31:32,210 --> 00:31:30,539
to someone earlier that I basically I

817
00:31:33,649 --> 00:31:32,220
feel like I just organized the

818
00:31:35,930 --> 00:31:33,659
conference that I wanted to go to so

819
00:31:38,630 --> 00:31:35,940
that I picked it but I think a lot of

820
00:31:41,269 --> 00:31:38,640
other people do too you did a great job

821
00:31:43,789 --> 00:31:41,279
thank you so much well I am so excited

822
00:31:45,470 --> 00:31:43,799
and we will see you in May

823
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:45,480
fantastic looking forward to it thanks

824
00:31:50,000 --> 00:32:00,529
[Music]

825
00:32:00,539 --> 00:32:07,320
foreign

826
00:32:32,389 --> 00:32:13,890
[Music]

827
00:32:32,399 --> 00:32:39,710
foreign

828
00:32:44,029 --> 00:32:41,830
[Music]

829
00:32:46,250 --> 00:32:44,039
thank you so much for joining me today

830
00:32:48,289 --> 00:32:46,260
I'm so excited to talk to you hey it's

831
00:32:50,930 --> 00:32:48,299
my pleasure I'm really excited not only

832
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:50,940
about this talk but also showing up in

833
00:32:54,590 --> 00:32:51,840
May

834
00:32:56,450 --> 00:32:54,600
yes I absolutely can't wait I was so so

835
00:32:58,610 --> 00:32:56,460
excited when you said yes I've been a

836
00:32:59,810 --> 00:32:58,620
big fan of your work for a while I got a

837
00:33:00,830 --> 00:32:59,820
little sneak preview of some of the

838
00:33:02,930 --> 00:33:00,840
things you're going to be talking about

839
00:33:04,610 --> 00:33:02,940
I think people are really gonna get a

840
00:33:07,310 --> 00:33:04,620
kick out of it hear some stories they

841
00:33:09,289 --> 00:33:07,320
definitely have not heard before so yeah

842
00:33:11,950 --> 00:33:09,299
I say we just dive into it and give them

843
00:33:14,810 --> 00:33:11,960
a little taste so

844
00:33:16,850 --> 00:33:14,820
yeah absolutely so

845
00:33:18,950 --> 00:33:16,860
um as someone who's been working in the

846
00:33:20,870 --> 00:33:18,960
media and also in the UFO space for a

847
00:33:22,669 --> 00:33:20,880
really long time what do you think that

848
00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:22,679
films and television most often get

849
00:33:29,389 --> 00:33:26,399
wrong about the UFO phenomenon oh well I

850
00:33:31,490 --> 00:33:29,399
mean almost everything uh there are very

851
00:33:34,009 --> 00:33:31,500
few projects that are actually I guess

852
00:33:37,070 --> 00:33:34,019
what you could call ufologically precise

853
00:33:39,889 --> 00:33:37,080
most of them tend to be alien pieces and

854
00:33:41,509 --> 00:33:39,899
usually aliens are used as the threat I

855
00:33:43,610 --> 00:33:41,519
mean that's why they call them Alien

856
00:33:45,649 --> 00:33:43,620
Invasion films there's actually no

857
00:33:47,389 --> 00:33:45,659
evidence that aliens are about to invade

858
00:33:49,549 --> 00:33:47,399
us because even if they're here they

859
00:33:51,470 --> 00:33:49,559
haven't invaded the way they do in film

860
00:33:53,210 --> 00:33:51,480
and television but you know I can't

861
00:33:56,630 --> 00:33:53,220
really complain I'm the creator of an

862
00:33:58,610 --> 00:33:56,640
alien invasion series myself so uh I

863
00:34:00,590 --> 00:33:58,620
think that the reason that a lot of that

864
00:34:03,169 --> 00:34:00,600
happens though is that it's just good

865
00:34:05,690 --> 00:34:03,179
drama if you go to screenwriting 101

866
00:34:08,149 --> 00:34:05,700
it's like well what's the conflict here

867
00:34:10,430 --> 00:34:08,159
and for a year a few years I worked with

868
00:34:12,710 --> 00:34:10,440
Stanley and he became a very good friend

869
00:34:15,109 --> 00:34:12,720
of mine and it's very interesting I've

870
00:34:17,810 --> 00:34:15,119
talked UFOs with Stan and aliens and all

871
00:34:20,570 --> 00:34:17,820
that and his notes on almost everything

872
00:34:22,250 --> 00:34:20,580
came down to who do they fight right

873
00:34:25,089 --> 00:34:22,260
because he was an old comic book guy who

874
00:34:28,730 --> 00:34:25,099
do they fight and so that's I think

875
00:34:30,349 --> 00:34:28,740
explains a lot of UFO projects or alien

876
00:34:31,790 --> 00:34:30,359
projects it's like you gotta have

877
00:34:33,889 --> 00:34:31,800
conflict so they gotta fight somebody

878
00:34:36,290 --> 00:34:33,899
and that's what the aliens give you on

879
00:34:38,450 --> 00:34:36,300
the other hand I'm kind of drawn to the

880
00:34:41,389 --> 00:34:38,460
other end of this spectrum I'm intrigued

881
00:34:43,490 --> 00:34:41,399
by telling stories that even though we

882
00:34:46,190 --> 00:34:43,500
literally do not know what the phenomena

883
00:34:48,530 --> 00:34:46,200
exactly is right now I'm interested in

884
00:34:51,470 --> 00:34:48,540
exploring those kind of issues as much

885
00:34:53,270 --> 00:34:51,480
as I am writing another alien invasion

886
00:34:55,070 --> 00:34:53,280
that makes a lot of sense it's almost

887
00:34:56,629 --> 00:34:55,080
like a disaster movie right where you

888
00:34:58,190 --> 00:34:56,639
have sort of this asteroid or it could

889
00:34:59,930 --> 00:34:58,200
be aliens it's just this something to

890
00:35:01,849 --> 00:34:59,940
fight that's a great way to put it right

891
00:35:04,250 --> 00:35:01,859
you know it's also interesting on the

892
00:35:06,530 --> 00:35:04,260
Stan Lee topic yeah I also sat him down

893
00:35:08,930 --> 00:35:06,540
and said Stan let's talk aliens you know

894
00:35:11,030 --> 00:35:08,940
because let's face it even though much

895
00:35:12,829 --> 00:35:11,040
of his product is considered comic book

896
00:35:15,410 --> 00:35:12,839
and then it spurred the Marvel Universe

897
00:35:17,569 --> 00:35:15,420
of course but he had a lot of aliens you

898
00:35:19,430 --> 00:35:17,579
know he used aliens a lot I said what's

899
00:35:20,270 --> 00:35:19,440
your philosophy about aliens and he said

900
00:35:22,790 --> 00:35:20,280
well

901
00:35:25,190 --> 00:35:22,800
if at the beginning of the comic or

902
00:35:27,470 --> 00:35:25,200
slash picture or series or whatever the

903
00:35:29,990 --> 00:35:27,480
aliens look good then they turn out to

904
00:35:31,730 --> 00:35:30,000
be bad and if at the beginning they look

905
00:35:34,010 --> 00:35:31,740
like they're bad they turn out to be

906
00:35:36,290 --> 00:35:34,020
good and if you look at some of his

907
00:35:39,710 --> 00:35:36,300
stuff that's exactly what he did movie

908
00:35:41,210 --> 00:35:39,720
Magic yeah I love it

909
00:35:43,550 --> 00:35:41,220
um so there's obviously a complicated

910
00:35:44,810 --> 00:35:43,560
relationship between experiences of the

911
00:35:46,490 --> 00:35:44,820
phenomenon and then how those

912
00:35:48,349 --> 00:35:46,500
experiences were actually portrayed in

913
00:35:50,329 --> 00:35:48,359
the media can you talk about that

914
00:35:51,890 --> 00:35:50,339
relationship a little bit and how do you

915
00:35:54,290 --> 00:35:51,900
even start to tackle that as someone

916
00:35:55,550 --> 00:35:54,300
who's trying to create something in this

917
00:35:57,710 --> 00:35:55,560
space

918
00:36:01,069 --> 00:35:57,720
well first of all there is a long

919
00:36:04,010 --> 00:36:01,079
history of Hollywood and I guess the

920
00:36:05,810 --> 00:36:04,020
alien slash UFO issue it literally goes

921
00:36:08,930 --> 00:36:05,820
back to the beginning if you think about

922
00:36:11,329 --> 00:36:08,940
it the very first a film uh on that

923
00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:11,339
topic was called The Flying Saucer and

924
00:36:16,490 --> 00:36:13,800
it was in 1950 which is three years

925
00:36:18,230 --> 00:36:16,500
after the summer of 47 that gave us the

926
00:36:21,230 --> 00:36:18,240
Kenneth Arnold sighting as well as the

927
00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:21,240
Roswell case so movies have been trying

928
00:36:26,450 --> 00:36:24,540
to reflect the public interest in this

929
00:36:28,250 --> 00:36:26,460
topic for a while and frankly going back

930
00:36:30,650 --> 00:36:28,260
to the 50s you had everything from War

931
00:36:32,870 --> 00:36:30,660
of the Worlds to Earth versus the flying

932
00:36:35,890 --> 00:36:32,880
saucers to The Day the Earth Stood Still

933
00:36:39,170 --> 00:36:35,900
so we've been using Hollywood to

934
00:36:41,089 --> 00:36:39,180
interpret this story whatever it is or

935
00:36:42,829 --> 00:36:41,099
possibly the story has been using

936
00:36:44,390 --> 00:36:42,839
Hollywood it's it's kind of a chicken

937
00:36:45,770 --> 00:36:44,400
and egg thing when you think about it

938
00:36:47,569 --> 00:36:45,780
that's one of the things I want to

939
00:36:50,089 --> 00:36:47,579
explore in this speech that I'll be

940
00:36:52,670 --> 00:36:50,099
giving at the conference because I've

941
00:36:54,650 --> 00:36:52,680
certainly been exposed to all ends of

942
00:36:59,210 --> 00:36:54,660
the equation when it comes to this I've

943
00:37:01,370 --> 00:36:59,220
taken out some very specific UFO type of

944
00:37:03,410 --> 00:37:01,380
material and found that sometimes it

945
00:37:05,930 --> 00:37:03,420
encounters a lot of resistance because

946
00:37:07,849 --> 00:37:05,940
people want it to be not complex they

947
00:37:10,670 --> 00:37:07,859
want it to be simple and kind of facile

948
00:37:14,930 --> 00:37:10,680
so obviously me trying to tell a movie

949
00:37:17,390 --> 00:37:14,940
about Roswell they want the simple basic

950
00:37:19,490 --> 00:37:17,400
Roswell story they don't want to see a

951
00:37:21,050 --> 00:37:19,500
lot of nuance in that I'm also drawn to

952
00:37:23,329 --> 00:37:21,060
stories like the Betty and Barney Hill

953
00:37:25,069 --> 00:37:23,339
story which I have under option and have

954
00:37:26,930 --> 00:37:25,079
developed but I think there's always

955
00:37:29,089 --> 00:37:26,940
going to be this dance the thing that's

956
00:37:30,650 --> 00:37:29,099
interesting to me though is here we are

957
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:30,660
five years after the New York Times

958
00:37:35,390 --> 00:37:33,119
article where frankly more people than

959
00:37:37,310 --> 00:37:35,400
ever before in history are starting to

960
00:37:40,250 --> 00:37:37,320
say I guess there's something to this

961
00:37:41,930 --> 00:37:40,260
thing not the least of reasons because

962
00:37:44,329 --> 00:37:41,940
the government itself has finally

963
00:37:46,550 --> 00:37:44,339
admitted it instead of going to denial

964
00:37:49,550 --> 00:37:46,560
and ridicule so it's kind of interesting

965
00:37:51,950 --> 00:37:49,560
and yet the public has not really

966
00:37:54,170 --> 00:37:51,960
demanded to hear more stories that

967
00:37:56,329 --> 00:37:54,180
appear to be true I mean even if you

968
00:37:58,790 --> 00:37:56,339
take a look at the chick Blue Book as a

969
00:38:01,310 --> 00:37:58,800
story as a television series which my

970
00:38:04,310 --> 00:38:01,320
friend David O'Leary created very

971
00:38:05,690 --> 00:38:04,320
interesting piece very relevant toward a

972
00:38:07,910 --> 00:38:05,700
project that you're doing with the

973
00:38:10,730 --> 00:38:07,920
conference and yet at the same time it

974
00:38:12,950 --> 00:38:10,740
didn't feel the least bit of obligation

975
00:38:15,170 --> 00:38:12,960
to be true to the stories from Project

976
00:38:16,670 --> 00:38:15,180
Blue Book it pretty well just said hey

977
00:38:18,589 --> 00:38:16,680
you know what we'll use this as a

978
00:38:20,690 --> 00:38:18,599
jumping off point and frankly not only

979
00:38:22,370 --> 00:38:20,700
did the public accept it as that but I

980
00:38:23,930 --> 00:38:22,380
was kind of surprised that all the

981
00:38:25,849 --> 00:38:23,940
people who are very knowledgeable about

982
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:25,859
UFO said yeah that's fine with me I'm

983
00:38:31,910 --> 00:38:28,079
glad to see anybody doing anything about

984
00:38:33,470 --> 00:38:31,920
it so the jury is out if you will on how

985
00:38:35,690 --> 00:38:33,480
this is all going to shake down but I do

986
00:38:38,810 --> 00:38:35,700
have one prediction when we actually get

987
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:38,820
to a period of some form of legitimate

988
00:38:42,589 --> 00:38:40,800
official disclosure where basically

989
00:38:44,990 --> 00:38:42,599
we're admitting to ourselves that

990
00:38:47,569 --> 00:38:45,000
there's something here uh it's probably

991
00:38:49,849 --> 00:38:47,579
not us it's not Chinese drones but it's

992
00:38:52,970 --> 00:38:49,859
somebody who's not us flying stuff

993
00:38:55,370 --> 00:38:52,980
around from some other place once we

994
00:38:58,430 --> 00:38:55,380
admit that I think the public is going

995
00:38:59,810 --> 00:38:58,440
going to demand fewer stories that are

996
00:39:02,270 --> 00:38:59,820
about the

997
00:39:04,130 --> 00:39:02,280
impossible or the fantastic and they're

998
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:04,140
going to say well hey give me some

999
00:39:10,010 --> 00:39:06,480
stories that go back into our recent

1000
00:39:12,170 --> 00:39:10,020
history about this topic I mean I people

1001
00:39:15,050 --> 00:39:12,180
will want to know and so I think you'll

1002
00:39:16,730 --> 00:39:15,060
see more fact-based stories after our

1003
00:39:18,890 --> 00:39:16,740
initial disclosure

1004
00:39:20,450 --> 00:39:18,900
that's really interesting and it's an

1005
00:39:22,430 --> 00:39:20,460
interesting point you made about people

1006
00:39:23,690 --> 00:39:22,440
wanting a simpler story when it comes to

1007
00:39:26,510 --> 00:39:23,700
Hollywood they want something that they

1008
00:39:27,950 --> 00:39:26,520
can tie up in a bow and I know I'm sure

1009
00:39:30,829 --> 00:39:27,960
you've heard from so many people like if

1010
00:39:32,390 --> 00:39:30,839
you talked to any mufon investigator one

1011
00:39:34,370 --> 00:39:32,400
of the most basic 101 things that

1012
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:34,380
they'll tell you is that one of the best

1013
00:39:37,910 --> 00:39:36,000
ways for them to suss out a story that's

1014
00:39:41,329 --> 00:39:37,920
not true is that it makes too much sense

1015
00:39:42,410 --> 00:39:41,339
right yeah well there is you know we've

1016
00:39:44,510 --> 00:39:42,420
been talking about it as high

1017
00:39:46,190 --> 00:39:44,520
strangeness for these years and it is

1018
00:39:48,530 --> 00:39:46,200
true you see things and you go well

1019
00:39:50,329 --> 00:39:48,540
that's just really odd I wonder how that

1020
00:39:53,150 --> 00:39:50,339
happened and that's one of the things I

1021
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:53,160
want to talk about too in in my talk at

1022
00:39:57,410 --> 00:39:55,440
the conference for reasons that I can

1023
00:39:59,750 --> 00:39:57,420
only explain as being in the right place

1024
00:40:01,550 --> 00:39:59,760
at the right time I was literally

1025
00:40:03,650 --> 00:40:01,560
approached during the Dark Skies

1026
00:40:05,630 --> 00:40:03,660
television series by people who

1027
00:40:07,910 --> 00:40:05,640
purported to be from The Office of Naval

1028
00:40:09,710 --> 00:40:07,920
intelligence and I don't think this is

1029
00:40:11,870 --> 00:40:09,720
the place to go into that entire story

1030
00:40:14,930 --> 00:40:11,880
but I sure will be going into that

1031
00:40:17,930 --> 00:40:14,940
entire story at the conference and it

1032
00:40:19,550 --> 00:40:17,940
led me to believe that only one of two

1033
00:40:21,530 --> 00:40:19,560
possibilities could have been real in

1034
00:40:23,030 --> 00:40:21,540
that case either they were who they said

1035
00:40:25,010 --> 00:40:23,040
they were and they literally were

1036
00:40:26,930 --> 00:40:25,020
reaching out to us to see if we would

1037
00:40:29,510 --> 00:40:26,940
incorporate some of their thinking into

1038
00:40:32,390 --> 00:40:29,520
our television series or it was an

1039
00:40:35,150 --> 00:40:32,400
incredible con job but it was a con job

1040
00:40:36,950 --> 00:40:35,160
that took a great deal of planning on

1041
00:40:39,410 --> 00:40:36,960
whoever's part was trying to put it

1042
00:40:41,329 --> 00:40:39,420
together it wasn't a sloppy one so I

1043
00:40:43,310 --> 00:40:41,339
just think we live in a really strange

1044
00:40:46,010 --> 00:40:43,320
time right now and it's probably going

1045
00:40:47,990 --> 00:40:46,020
to get stranger before it's over

1046
00:40:49,609 --> 00:40:48,000
well I think I speak for everyone when I

1047
00:40:52,790 --> 00:40:49,619
say I can't wait to hear that story that

1048
00:40:54,650 --> 00:40:52,800
sounds fascinating so in terms of how

1049
00:40:56,870 --> 00:40:54,660
the media is changing or maybe not

1050
00:40:58,730 --> 00:40:56,880
changing like how have you seen the

1051
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:58,740
media change towards this topic since

1052
00:41:03,349 --> 00:41:01,200
2017 do you think that there's any are

1053
00:41:04,670 --> 00:41:03,359
you seeing any movement or any awareness

1054
00:41:06,230 --> 00:41:04,680
that they might need to get out ahead of

1055
00:41:07,490 --> 00:41:06,240
this thing or do you think that

1056
00:41:10,010 --> 00:41:07,500
Hollywood's still kind of where it's

1057
00:41:12,589 --> 00:41:10,020
been well I guess I we would should

1058
00:41:15,710 --> 00:41:12,599
define media because media is a pretty

1059
00:41:18,650 --> 00:41:15,720
large thing and on one scale of media

1060
00:41:20,630 --> 00:41:18,660
you have news you know Broadcast News

1061
00:41:23,510 --> 00:41:20,640
then you move into sort of reality

1062
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:23,520
television kind of shows and then you

1063
00:41:29,829 --> 00:41:26,880
move into more fiction and then into you

1064
00:41:33,349 --> 00:41:29,839
know wild fiction so

1065
00:41:35,930 --> 00:41:33,359
there is no monolithic media to to give

1066
00:41:38,870 --> 00:41:35,940
a report card to breaking it down though

1067
00:41:42,050 --> 00:41:38,880
into the short Strokes I would say the

1068
00:41:43,849 --> 00:41:42,060
news media has not been at its finest I

1069
00:41:45,950 --> 00:41:43,859
mean they should have dispatched their

1070
00:41:48,530 --> 00:41:45,960
reporters and said look if the U.S

1071
00:41:50,329 --> 00:41:48,540
government is admitting these videos are

1072
00:41:52,670 --> 00:41:50,339
real and the government is putting out

1073
00:41:54,530 --> 00:41:52,680
reports that say they don't know what

1074
00:41:56,569 --> 00:41:54,540
they are but they're authentic

1075
00:41:59,750 --> 00:41:56,579
why don't we look into this I would have

1076
00:42:02,089 --> 00:41:59,760
to give the media such as the news media

1077
00:42:04,670 --> 00:42:02,099
a less than perfect score on the other

1078
00:42:07,069 --> 00:42:04,680
hand I don't think a lot of the reality

1079
00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:07,079
show aspects have been any better when

1080
00:42:12,550 --> 00:42:08,880
it comes to actually what is Hollywood

1081
00:42:15,290 --> 00:42:12,560
doing about this frankly I've been

1082
00:42:18,109 --> 00:42:15,300
surprised that they haven't been more

1083
00:42:21,349 --> 00:42:18,119
interested in doing more projects that

1084
00:42:23,750 --> 00:42:21,359
are of this kind and I I certainly

1085
00:42:27,170 --> 00:42:23,760
I bet the farm with my own production

1086
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:27,180
company after the 2017 Revelations that

1087
00:42:32,089 --> 00:42:28,800
there would be more interest and in fact

1088
00:42:34,490 --> 00:42:32,099
I found that generally speaking not so

1089
00:42:36,170 --> 00:42:34,500
much but I do think that that's about to

1090
00:42:38,510 --> 00:42:36,180
change I don't have a crystal ball but

1091
00:42:41,329 --> 00:42:38,520
looking ahead into the Dynamics of

1092
00:42:44,270 --> 00:42:41,339
what's going on here in 2023 I think

1093
00:42:47,990 --> 00:42:44,280
2023 could go down as a really really

1094
00:42:50,930 --> 00:42:48,000
significant year and and if that happens

1095
00:42:54,050 --> 00:42:50,940
the people who I know who are Executives

1096
00:42:56,089 --> 00:42:54,060
in the television and film business that

1097
00:42:57,530 --> 00:42:56,099
will be the green light for them if they

1098
00:43:00,109 --> 00:42:57,540
can you know

1099
00:43:02,030 --> 00:43:00,119
do their check in the morning of what's

1100
00:43:05,630 --> 00:43:02,040
breaking news or whatever and they start

1101
00:43:08,030 --> 00:43:05,640
to see the UFO slash UAP issue more and

1102
00:43:09,890 --> 00:43:08,040
more prevalent with more and more people

1103
00:43:11,809 --> 00:43:09,900
talking about it that they're going to

1104
00:43:14,510 --> 00:43:11,819
say oh this could be good for us let's

1105
00:43:16,250 --> 00:43:14,520
do some more projects like that so you

1106
00:43:18,950 --> 00:43:16,260
know right now I would say they're they

1107
00:43:20,870 --> 00:43:18,960
haven't really stepped up in a way where

1108
00:43:22,609 --> 00:43:20,880
there's a lot of projects where I would

1109
00:43:24,530 --> 00:43:22,619
say now that's a great project I'm

1110
00:43:26,809 --> 00:43:24,540
really glad that one got made but I

1111
00:43:29,150 --> 00:43:26,819
think I think that could change too it's

1112
00:43:32,990 --> 00:43:29,160
just the thing is Hollywood doesn't lead

1113
00:43:35,210 --> 00:43:33,000
Hollywood follows right so it doesn't

1114
00:43:37,370 --> 00:43:35,220
mean that they're scared and it doesn't

1115
00:43:39,829 --> 00:43:37,380
mean that they are not intelligent

1116
00:43:42,710 --> 00:43:39,839
they're sometimes fearless and often

1117
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:42,720
very highly intelligent it just means

1118
00:43:47,270 --> 00:43:45,119
that they're looking at an audience and

1119
00:43:49,730 --> 00:43:47,280
the bottom line is how many eyeballs can

1120
00:43:51,950 --> 00:43:49,740
we get to this screen and apparently

1121
00:43:54,109 --> 00:43:51,960
they don't quite yet think that the

1122
00:43:57,430 --> 00:43:54,119
eyeballs will be there but having said

1123
00:44:00,410 --> 00:43:57,440
that let's be clear aliens

1124
00:44:03,050 --> 00:44:00,420
represent one of Hollywood's most

1125
00:44:04,670 --> 00:44:03,060
successful genres they just don't make a

1126
00:44:06,349 --> 00:44:04,680
lot of them but when they make them you

1127
00:44:08,870 --> 00:44:06,359
get things like Independence Day and

1128
00:44:10,490 --> 00:44:08,880
alien and things like that so who knows

1129
00:44:12,710 --> 00:44:10,500
what's coming next

1130
00:44:14,150 --> 00:44:12,720
oh that's so interesting well it sounds

1131
00:44:15,589 --> 00:44:14,160
like the best thing that we can be doing

1132
00:44:18,050 --> 00:44:15,599
then is exactly what we're going to be

1133
00:44:20,390 --> 00:44:18,060
doing it right Pat which is getting the

1134
00:44:21,650 --> 00:44:20,400
word out talking to people you know

1135
00:44:23,690 --> 00:44:21,660
we're getting in all the local

1136
00:44:25,069 --> 00:44:23,700
newspapers and bringing in what I'm

1137
00:44:27,050 --> 00:44:25,079
really excited about with Ray Patterson

1138
00:44:28,490 --> 00:44:27,060
also is that we're going to have a lot

1139
00:44:30,530 --> 00:44:28,500
of people coming to this event that have

1140
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:30,540
never been to a UFO conference before

1141
00:44:34,790 --> 00:44:33,119
it's so great uh Kelly really it's just

1142
00:44:36,530 --> 00:44:34,800
it's fantastic what you're doing and

1143
00:44:38,630 --> 00:44:36,540
let's face it everybody has heard about

1144
00:44:41,089 --> 00:44:38,640
Roswell the people that want to have

1145
00:44:42,770 --> 00:44:41,099
made the Trek to Roswell and they've had

1146
00:44:45,950 --> 00:44:42,780
conferences there and things like that

1147
00:44:48,589 --> 00:44:45,960
but Wright Patterson very very very

1148
00:44:51,950 --> 00:44:48,599
important historical Place probably

1149
00:44:54,050 --> 00:44:51,960
extremely important even today and those

1150
00:44:56,210 --> 00:44:54,060
of us who study this thing we know what

1151
00:44:58,970 --> 00:44:56,220
it means but a lot of people don't so

1152
00:45:00,710 --> 00:44:58,980
I'm really intrigued by being there I

1153
00:45:02,270 --> 00:45:00,720
remember on Dark Skies literally in our

1154
00:45:04,849 --> 00:45:02,280
pilot we have a scene that takes place

1155
00:45:08,030 --> 00:45:04,859
at Wright-Patterson because I just felt

1156
00:45:10,849 --> 00:45:08,040
like it was an incredibly important part

1157
00:45:12,410 --> 00:45:10,859
of the history and it remains so so I

1158
00:45:14,990 --> 00:45:12,420
think you're doing the right thing I'm

1159
00:45:16,670 --> 00:45:15,000
thrilled to be a part of it and I'm also

1160
00:45:19,370 --> 00:45:16,680
thrilled that people from around the

1161
00:45:21,470 --> 00:45:19,380
country have a chance to say hey let's

1162
00:45:23,630 --> 00:45:21,480
load up the kids and go to Ohio for a

1163
00:45:26,270 --> 00:45:23,640
vacation I hope to see many of them in

1164
00:45:29,329 --> 00:45:26,280
May when you do this thing yeah exactly

1165
00:45:31,670 --> 00:45:29,339
that listen as a lifelong Ohio and I

1166
00:45:34,130 --> 00:45:31,680
feel the same so excited that you're

1167
00:45:36,290 --> 00:45:34,140
coming so before we sign off do you have

1168
00:45:37,730 --> 00:45:36,300
anything exciting coming up on need to

1169
00:45:41,750 --> 00:45:37,740
know or any other projects that you're

1170
00:45:42,890 --> 00:45:41,760
working on well uh I'll tell you yes you

1171
00:45:45,950 --> 00:45:42,900
know absolutely but they're all

1172
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:45,960
classified can't talk about any of them

1173
00:45:48,890 --> 00:45:46,800
um

1174
00:45:50,809 --> 00:45:48,900
yes thanks for bringing that up need to

1175
00:45:53,569 --> 00:45:50,819
know what you people can access at need

1176
00:45:55,790 --> 00:45:53,579
to know dot today is what Ross coltard

1177
00:45:57,290 --> 00:45:55,800
and I are doing as a as a podcast and by

1178
00:45:59,750 --> 00:45:57,300
the way your podcast pretty darn

1179
00:46:01,970 --> 00:45:59,760
excellent I've heard every episode

1180
00:46:05,150 --> 00:46:01,980
um and we're trying to keep that alive

1181
00:46:07,550 --> 00:46:05,160
and we are also working on moving it

1182
00:46:10,250 --> 00:46:07,560
migrating it into a television uh

1183
00:46:11,870 --> 00:46:10,260
iteration as well which will be very

1184
00:46:13,250 --> 00:46:11,880
interesting and one of the things that

1185
00:46:16,130 --> 00:46:13,260
I've been working on personally right

1186
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:16,140
now so that I could actually debut at

1187
00:46:21,050 --> 00:46:18,720
first at your conference is Ross and I

1188
00:46:24,050 --> 00:46:21,060
are working on a special for channel 7

1189
00:46:25,849 --> 00:46:24,060
Spotlight Australia and it's about the

1190
00:46:29,089 --> 00:46:25,859
same topic that I'm going to be speaking

1191
00:46:32,329 --> 00:46:29,099
at your conference which is what is the

1192
00:46:35,690 --> 00:46:32,339
relationship between Hollywood and the

1193
00:46:38,089 --> 00:46:35,700
UFO issue they're a DNA strand what

1194
00:46:41,030 --> 00:46:38,099
causes them to mix and how does one

1195
00:46:43,130 --> 00:46:41,040
influence the other and are they

1196
00:46:44,750 --> 00:46:43,140
influencing each other I mean we know at

1197
00:46:47,630 --> 00:46:44,760
the very beginning going back to the

1198
00:46:50,390 --> 00:46:47,640
1950s that some of them you know the CIA

1199
00:46:53,450 --> 00:46:50,400
was giving advice to filmmakers as was

1200
00:46:55,849 --> 00:46:53,460
the military giving approval and stuff

1201
00:46:57,349 --> 00:46:55,859
that the various films so I'm looking

1202
00:46:59,270 --> 00:46:57,359
into that

1203
00:47:01,849 --> 00:46:59,280
um the things that I'm working on right

1204
00:47:03,530 --> 00:47:01,859
now are include of course I have a

1205
00:47:05,210 --> 00:47:03,540
project called captured which is about

1206
00:47:06,710 --> 00:47:05,220
the Betty and Barney Hill case that

1207
00:47:08,990 --> 00:47:06,720
would be a limited series if we're lucky

1208
00:47:09,770 --> 00:47:09,000
enough to set it up still working on

1209
00:47:12,829 --> 00:47:09,780
that

1210
00:47:14,450 --> 00:47:12,839
and basically which I think is nice I'm

1211
00:47:16,309 --> 00:47:14,460
writing a book right now that's called

1212
00:47:18,950 --> 00:47:16,319
Close Encounters of the Hollywood kind

1213
00:47:21,650 --> 00:47:18,960
and I'm giving a road test to those

1214
00:47:23,270 --> 00:47:21,660
themes at your conference so I guess if

1215
00:47:25,550 --> 00:47:23,280
people really like it I'll go back home

1216
00:47:27,470 --> 00:47:25,560
and start writing in Earnest and I guess

1217
00:47:29,569 --> 00:47:27,480
if people are like whatever then maybe I

1218
00:47:31,790 --> 00:47:29,579
won't but right now I'm kind of excited

1219
00:47:33,710 --> 00:47:31,800
about it because I feel like

1220
00:47:36,170 --> 00:47:33,720
um you know we all have our part to play

1221
00:47:39,109 --> 00:47:36,180
in disclosure this is not the time to be

1222
00:47:41,750 --> 00:47:39,119
cute or Coy about anything I've had some

1223
00:47:43,970 --> 00:47:41,760
legitimate experiences I am not an

1224
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:43,980
experiencer nobody's ever seen a UFO

1225
00:47:48,410 --> 00:47:46,319
never been taken into a UFO but I feel

1226
00:47:50,990 --> 00:47:48,420
like I'm an experiencer of the

1227
00:47:53,630 --> 00:47:51,000
phenomenon because the phenomenon has

1228
00:47:56,210 --> 00:47:53,640
somehow visited me on some of the shows

1229
00:47:58,190 --> 00:47:56,220
that I've done and if we have time let

1230
00:48:00,950 --> 00:47:58,200
me tell you one very short little story

1231
00:48:03,589 --> 00:48:00,960
this really literally happened I'm on

1232
00:48:06,109 --> 00:48:03,599
I'm working on Dark Skies the television

1233
00:48:08,210 --> 00:48:06,119
series that was on NBC and my creative

1234
00:48:10,550 --> 00:48:08,220
partner Brent Friedman and I each had

1235
00:48:12,589 --> 00:48:10,560
our UFO Library so we he would look at

1236
00:48:14,270 --> 00:48:12,599
mine I'd look at his and we would find

1237
00:48:16,250 --> 00:48:14,280
things to talk about to put in the show

1238
00:48:17,690 --> 00:48:16,260
he said have you ever read The Mothman

1239
00:48:21,349 --> 00:48:17,700
Prophecies

1240
00:48:23,150 --> 00:48:21,359
and at that time I had not and so I took

1241
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:23,160
his advice and I went and got a copy of

1242
00:48:27,470 --> 00:48:25,680
the Mothman Prophecies by John Keel who

1243
00:48:29,030 --> 00:48:27,480
is most famous for saying he didn't

1244
00:48:31,130 --> 00:48:29,040
think it was nuts and bolts but it was

1245
00:48:33,950 --> 00:48:31,140
something else it was something sort of

1246
00:48:36,109 --> 00:48:33,960
like Jacques filet so I had that book it

1247
00:48:38,150 --> 00:48:36,119
was sitting in the back seat of my car I

1248
00:48:40,010 --> 00:48:38,160
take my oldest son at the time out to

1249
00:48:42,650 --> 00:48:40,020
see a movie we're coming out of the

1250
00:48:46,190 --> 00:48:42,660
movie theater it's maybe 10 o'clock at

1251
00:48:49,370 --> 00:48:46,200
night and we're walking to our car and

1252
00:48:52,190 --> 00:48:49,380
in the distance I see a guy in a long

1253
00:48:55,730 --> 00:48:52,200
dark sort of almost Cowboy duster it's a

1254
00:48:56,930 --> 00:48:55,740
black full-length jacket and frankly it

1255
00:48:59,390 --> 00:48:56,940
was a little creepy he was coming

1256
00:49:01,730 --> 00:48:59,400
straight at us and so I moved my son

1257
00:49:03,650 --> 00:49:01,740
around I go you know walk over here get

1258
00:49:05,630 --> 00:49:03,660
in the car just something a parent would

1259
00:49:07,010 --> 00:49:05,640
do you're freaked out you know get in

1260
00:49:12,770 --> 00:49:07,020
the car

1261
00:49:14,690 --> 00:49:12,780
guy is crossing us and as this guy

1262
00:49:17,390 --> 00:49:14,700
crosses us

1263
00:49:19,069 --> 00:49:17,400
he's holding a copy of the Mothman

1264
00:49:21,470 --> 00:49:19,079
Prophecies

1265
00:49:24,050 --> 00:49:21,480
no oh my gosh what's the chance of that

1266
00:49:25,730 --> 00:49:24,060
right so we've always said there's a

1267
00:49:27,770 --> 00:49:25,740
coincidence aspect to this there's

1268
00:49:29,390 --> 00:49:27,780
something else going on now look yeah

1269
00:49:31,370 --> 00:49:29,400
that could easily happen I'm not

1270
00:49:33,770 --> 00:49:31,380
claiming it was anything outrageous but

1271
00:49:35,809 --> 00:49:33,780
it might have been I mean what is the

1272
00:49:37,609 --> 00:49:35,819
chance that I have a copy of the Mothman

1273
00:49:40,370 --> 00:49:37,619
Prophecies in the back seat of my car

1274
00:49:42,410 --> 00:49:40,380
and a guy in a long black jacket looks

1275
00:49:44,510 --> 00:49:42,420
threatening I stick my kid in the car

1276
00:49:46,010 --> 00:49:44,520
and I see the guys holding a moth and I

1277
00:49:47,809 --> 00:49:46,020
prophecies so yeah I'm going to tell

1278
00:49:49,370 --> 00:49:47,819
some stories like that and some

1279
00:49:52,370 --> 00:49:49,380
hopefully better ones than that when

1280
00:49:54,050 --> 00:49:52,380
when I see you guys in May no I love

1281
00:49:56,930 --> 00:49:54,060
that I'm a huge fan of the Mothman

1282
00:49:58,910 --> 00:49:56,940
Prophecies huge fan of Keel I swear that

1283
00:50:01,190 --> 00:49:58,920
book is haunted there's something about

1284
00:50:04,130 --> 00:50:01,200
it that I feel like everybody has some

1285
00:50:06,829 --> 00:50:04,140
weird synchronicity with right with the

1286
00:50:09,230 --> 00:50:06,839
Mothman Prophecies it's so it's it's

1287
00:50:11,809 --> 00:50:09,240
it's fascinating you know and I've I've

1288
00:50:13,370 --> 00:50:11,819
been recently rereading his operation

1289
00:50:16,970 --> 00:50:13,380
Trojan Horse

1290
00:50:18,770 --> 00:50:16,980
which I found fascinating I mean just we

1291
00:50:21,170 --> 00:50:18,780
like to think this UFO thing is like

1292
00:50:23,210 --> 00:50:21,180
well we'll just apply science to it and

1293
00:50:24,890 --> 00:50:23,220
we'll figure it all out and you do a

1294
00:50:27,109 --> 00:50:24,900
great job with that by the way in in

1295
00:50:29,089 --> 00:50:27,119
your own podcast and yet there's always

1296
00:50:30,829 --> 00:50:29,099
something about it where you go well why

1297
00:50:33,410 --> 00:50:30,839
would that why would science explain

1298
00:50:35,270 --> 00:50:33,420
that and I'll give you an example what

1299
00:50:37,790 --> 00:50:35,280
does he find after his years of research

1300
00:50:41,150 --> 00:50:37,800
he finds out that most of the UFO cases

1301
00:50:43,450 --> 00:50:41,160
he's looking into happen on Wednesdays

1302
00:50:46,609 --> 00:50:43,460
why

1303
00:50:49,130 --> 00:50:46,619
what's the magic of Wednesday how would

1304
00:50:51,770 --> 00:50:49,140
science explain UFO sightings on

1305
00:50:53,089 --> 00:50:51,780
Wednesdays I have no idea and yet you

1306
00:50:55,250 --> 00:50:53,099
know who I think would have an answer

1307
00:50:57,170 --> 00:50:55,260
for that not a scientific answer but an

1308
00:50:59,750 --> 00:50:57,180
interesting answer are the guys that we

1309
00:51:01,910 --> 00:50:59,760
just added to the lineup uh Phil Ford

1310
00:51:04,010 --> 00:51:01,920
and JF Martel from weird studies they've

1311
00:51:06,829 --> 00:51:04,020
actually talked Wednesday is apparently

1312
00:51:09,170 --> 00:51:06,839
the weirdest day of the week is it yeah

1313
00:51:10,609 --> 00:51:09,180
and apparently that's like when Mo it's

1314
00:51:12,049 --> 00:51:10,619
clearly it's just a very squirrely day

1315
00:51:14,809 --> 00:51:12,059
that's when most paranormal activity

1316
00:51:17,030 --> 00:51:14,819
happens is on a Wednesday that makes

1317
00:51:18,589 --> 00:51:17,040
I mean I don't doubt that for a second

1318
00:51:22,549 --> 00:51:18,599
and yet at the same time I go that makes

1319
00:51:24,230 --> 00:51:22,559
no sense I mean right there it is so in

1320
00:51:25,910 --> 00:51:24,240
fact you know as you begin to look for

1321
00:51:27,650 --> 00:51:25,920
well let's look into the science of this

1322
00:51:29,390 --> 00:51:27,660
thing well what is science but trying to

1323
00:51:31,370 --> 00:51:29,400
well let's find out what facts we know

1324
00:51:35,049 --> 00:51:31,380
let's tell ourselves what we know we

1325
00:51:37,430 --> 00:51:35,059
know well okay so let's go look at data

1326
00:51:40,730 --> 00:51:37,440
everybody's talking about data right now

1327
00:51:42,530 --> 00:51:40,740
okay great well he looked into data and

1328
00:51:44,569 --> 00:51:42,540
what did he come up with he came up with

1329
00:51:48,230 --> 00:51:44,579
Wednesday I'll be very curious for

1330
00:51:50,329 --> 00:51:48,240
example if uh this this new push toward

1331
00:51:52,010 --> 00:51:50,339
let's let's get all the data let's

1332
00:51:54,470 --> 00:51:52,020
collect it let's put it all together

1333
00:51:56,809 --> 00:51:54,480
let's find out what the data can tell us

1334
00:51:59,210 --> 00:51:56,819
wouldn't it be interesting if after all

1335
00:52:01,970 --> 00:51:59,220
of that the data confirms what John Keel

1336
00:52:03,890 --> 00:52:01,980
said and it's Wednesdays so you want to

1337
00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:03,900
see a UFO go out on the hill at

1338
00:52:09,230 --> 00:52:06,420
Wednesday and stay up all night I don't

1339
00:52:11,510 --> 00:52:09,240
know right oh it's just baffling I feel

1340
00:52:13,549 --> 00:52:11,520
like that's why I can't walk away well

1341
00:52:16,609 --> 00:52:13,559
that's just it isn't it I mean the thing

1342
00:52:18,290 --> 00:52:16,619
is I've done this long enough that I

1343
00:52:20,510 --> 00:52:18,300
would there have been many times where

1344
00:52:22,970 --> 00:52:20,520
I've said maybe I should just walk away

1345
00:52:26,089 --> 00:52:22,980
I mean because believe me I don't think

1346
00:52:28,069 --> 00:52:26,099
it's enhanced my career to to be a UFO

1347
00:52:30,049 --> 00:52:28,079
guy you know it hasn't turned out to be

1348
00:52:32,809 --> 00:52:30,059
a terrible thing either I mean I've I've

1349
00:52:34,970 --> 00:52:32,819
had some significant projects made and I

1350
00:52:37,010 --> 00:52:34,980
I've enjoyed it but

1351
00:52:38,809 --> 00:52:37,020
you know there are also moments of

1352
00:52:40,370 --> 00:52:38,819
discomfort where you say I don't like

1353
00:52:42,710 --> 00:52:40,380
being a Target I don't want someone

1354
00:52:45,230 --> 00:52:42,720
showing at my house I don't want to be

1355
00:52:48,170 --> 00:52:45,240
that person I don't want to be a UFO guy

1356
00:52:50,870 --> 00:52:48,180
I've played that game many times over

1357
00:52:52,370 --> 00:52:50,880
the years but there it's sort of I guess

1358
00:52:53,930 --> 00:52:52,380
it's in The Godfather just when you

1359
00:52:57,890 --> 00:52:53,940
think you're out they pull you back in

1360
00:53:00,829 --> 00:52:57,900
uh and I can't quit this thing because I

1361
00:53:02,690 --> 00:53:00,839
want to know and as I've said several

1362
00:53:04,130 --> 00:53:02,700
times I'm not the young man I used to be

1363
00:53:05,870 --> 00:53:04,140
I remember when I first came to

1364
00:53:07,910 --> 00:53:05,880
Hollywood I was always the youngest guy

1365
00:53:09,710 --> 00:53:07,920
in the room that's not true anymore but

1366
00:53:12,109 --> 00:53:09,720
I will tell you this I want the same I

1367
00:53:14,990 --> 00:53:12,119
want something very much right now I

1368
00:53:18,710 --> 00:53:15,000
want to know what the best Minds already

1369
00:53:21,770 --> 00:53:18,720
know about this topic and I'm a little

1370
00:53:23,630 --> 00:53:21,780
irritated that after almost 80 years

1371
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:23,640
they've not shared their work a little

1372
00:53:28,130 --> 00:53:25,680
more than I would expect from people

1373
00:53:31,609 --> 00:53:28,140
because let's face it to Kelly

1374
00:53:34,190 --> 00:53:31,619
you and I are taxpayers we pay for these

1375
00:53:36,349 --> 00:53:34,200
things that collect this data right and

1376
00:53:38,329 --> 00:53:36,359
we're also citizens and we have a right

1377
00:53:40,130 --> 00:53:38,339
in a free and open country to know

1378
00:53:42,470 --> 00:53:40,140
what's happening in the skies above us

1379
00:53:44,390 --> 00:53:42,480
and I'm not even happy with the

1380
00:53:46,970 --> 00:53:44,400
resolution of the shoot Downs that

1381
00:53:49,190 --> 00:53:46,980
happened in February because they've

1382
00:53:51,290 --> 00:53:49,200
said okay well I guess we can't get them

1383
00:53:52,910 --> 00:53:51,300
you know it wasn't anything but we don't

1384
00:53:54,410 --> 00:53:52,920
actually have the wreckage and we're not

1385
00:53:56,030 --> 00:53:54,420
going to show you the photos we took

1386
00:53:57,890 --> 00:53:56,040
well

1387
00:53:59,450 --> 00:53:57,900
I'm sorry that's not good enough for me

1388
00:54:02,270 --> 00:53:59,460
not anymore

1389
00:54:04,670 --> 00:54:02,280
I agree I absolutely agree which is why

1390
00:54:06,829 --> 00:54:04,680
I'm so excited that we're taking this

1391
00:54:09,349 --> 00:54:06,839
respectfully but we're taking it to the

1392
00:54:12,349 --> 00:54:09,359
gates of Wright-Patterson well listen it

1393
00:54:15,730 --> 00:54:12,359
is like I say it's a fresh place and yet

1394
00:54:17,930 --> 00:54:15,740
it's full of history I mean

1395
00:54:19,970 --> 00:54:17,940
frankly I didn't know enough of the

1396
00:54:21,530 --> 00:54:19,980
history otherwise the speech I was I'd

1397
00:54:24,410 --> 00:54:21,540
be giving would probably be the history

1398
00:54:26,390 --> 00:54:24,420
of Wright-Patt uh because it's so

1399
00:54:27,950 --> 00:54:26,400
historical and in fact my friend Don

1400
00:54:30,650 --> 00:54:27,960
Schmidt has literally written a book

1401
00:54:32,390 --> 00:54:30,660
about it and uh yeah I have it open in

1402
00:54:34,730 --> 00:54:32,400
my room right now I'm reading it I mean

1403
00:54:35,990 --> 00:54:34,740
you know it's like um you know people

1404
00:54:37,730 --> 00:54:36,000
always say well they know where the

1405
00:54:40,490 --> 00:54:37,740
bodies are buried well maybe the bodies

1406
00:54:42,950 --> 00:54:40,500
are buried there I don't know but I

1407
00:54:45,170 --> 00:54:42,960
would like to know and I look forward to

1408
00:54:47,450 --> 00:54:45,180
listening to everybody who's speaking

1409
00:54:49,309 --> 00:54:47,460
when I'm not speaking because I don't

1410
00:54:51,890 --> 00:54:49,319
feel like I'm done here I feel like

1411
00:54:53,630 --> 00:54:51,900
there's so much more for us all to get

1412
00:54:55,549 --> 00:54:53,640
inside our heads because

1413
00:54:57,650 --> 00:54:55,559
one of the things I guess one of my

1414
00:54:59,690 --> 00:54:57,660
Hollywood experiences for a period of

1415
00:55:01,190 --> 00:54:59,700
time I was the CEO of the television

1416
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:01,200
Academy the people that give out the

1417
00:55:05,510 --> 00:55:03,839
Emmys and I remember getting elected and

1418
00:55:08,089 --> 00:55:05,520
the president of the academy the

1419
00:55:09,650 --> 00:55:08,099
non-elected guy takes me aside and he

1420
00:55:11,510 --> 00:55:09,660
goes don't get too full of yourself

1421
00:55:13,370 --> 00:55:11,520
don't think that you're The Miracle

1422
00:55:14,990 --> 00:55:13,380
Worker he said and what he said is

1423
00:55:17,750 --> 00:55:15,000
always stuck with me he said all of us

1424
00:55:20,750 --> 00:55:17,760
together are smarter than any one of us

1425
00:55:23,930 --> 00:55:20,760
and when it comes to the UFO UAP issue I

1426
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:23,940
say Amen brother that is exactly the

1427
00:55:30,770 --> 00:55:27,599
truth no one of us and anytime somebody

1428
00:55:32,750 --> 00:55:30,780
gives a speech or goes on a podcast and

1429
00:55:36,710 --> 00:55:32,760
acts like they've got the revealed truth

1430
00:55:39,530 --> 00:55:36,720
I am deeply suspicious of that person so

1431
00:55:42,170 --> 00:55:39,540
I I feel like we got some work to do but

1432
00:55:44,870 --> 00:55:42,180
I'm hopeful that we're getting started

1433
00:55:46,670 --> 00:55:44,880
on it and your conference is a great

1434
00:55:47,930 --> 00:55:46,680
addition to that so thank you for doing

1435
00:55:52,370 --> 00:55:47,940
it

1436
00:55:53,809 --> 00:55:52,380
come true honestly so well Bryce thank

1437
00:55:55,609 --> 00:55:53,819
you so much for taking the time to chat

1438
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:55,619
with me today I absolutely cannot wait

1439
00:55:58,790 --> 00:55:57,359
to meet you in person down at

1440
00:56:00,230 --> 00:55:58,800
Wright-Patt I'll see if maybe I might be

1441
00:56:02,270 --> 00:56:00,240
able to get you a tour I'll see what I

1442
00:56:04,910 --> 00:56:02,280
can do oh man I would love that you do

1443
00:56:07,069 --> 00:56:04,920
that and um well I don't know I'll owe

1444
00:56:09,530 --> 00:56:07,079
you forever anyway I'll see you in May

1445
00:56:10,970 --> 00:56:09,540
in Ohio at right bat and thanks for

1446
00:56:13,849 --> 00:56:10,980
having me on right now and for the

1447
00:56:15,230 --> 00:56:13,859
people who are listening and uh this I

1448
00:56:17,329 --> 00:56:15,240
hope you'll consider going to this

1449
00:56:19,609 --> 00:56:17,339
conference because it's a good cause and

1450
00:56:22,430 --> 00:56:19,619
just so you know you actually are

1451
00:56:24,710 --> 00:56:22,440
impacting the disclosure process if you

1452
00:56:28,069 --> 00:56:24,720
decide to go to this because this could

1453
00:56:30,710 --> 00:56:28,079
become a annual event based on what it

1454
00:56:32,690 --> 00:56:30,720
does and if that's the case then that's

1455
00:56:35,809 --> 00:56:32,700
great because it's under good auspices

1456
00:56:36,950 --> 00:56:35,819
with Kelly and her friends so see you

1457
00:56:38,809 --> 00:56:36,960
then

1458
00:56:50,110 --> 00:56:38,819
thank you so much

1459
00:57:17,450 --> 00:56:59,480
[Music]

1460
00:57:22,250 --> 00:57:19,670
all right well welcome to the show guys

1461
00:57:25,069 --> 00:57:22,260
I am so excited to have you here I have

1462
00:57:26,690 --> 00:57:25,079
been such a fan of your podcast for over

1463
00:57:28,010 --> 00:57:26,700
a year now I've probably listened to

1464
00:57:29,750 --> 00:57:28,020
every single episode I'm absolutely

1465
00:57:31,670 --> 00:57:29,760
obsessed thrilled to have you thank you

1466
00:57:33,710 --> 00:57:31,680
so much for joining me today thank you

1467
00:57:35,089 --> 00:57:33,720
very much thanks for having us yeah it's

1468
00:57:37,609 --> 00:57:35,099
great and it's

1469
00:57:39,170 --> 00:57:37,619
I mean we feel exactly the same what

1470
00:57:42,109 --> 00:57:39,180
you're doing I think is important work

1471
00:57:45,530 --> 00:57:42,119
at this important moment so

1472
00:57:47,870 --> 00:57:45,540
the feeling is mutual big fan thank you

1473
00:57:49,910 --> 00:57:47,880
so much that makes me so happy

1474
00:57:51,770 --> 00:57:49,920
um so for all the people out there you

1475
00:57:53,390 --> 00:57:51,780
guys are a little bit of outliers in

1476
00:57:54,770 --> 00:57:53,400
terms of the speakers that we've invited

1477
00:57:56,150 --> 00:57:54,780
to the conference but I thought it was

1478
00:57:58,430 --> 00:57:56,160
so important to have you there because

1479
00:58:01,130 --> 00:57:58,440
as I've been following your work I've

1480
00:58:03,290 --> 00:58:01,140
really been seeing the parallels between

1481
00:58:04,790 --> 00:58:03,300
the work that you are doing and the work

1482
00:58:07,609 --> 00:58:04,800
that's being done in the UFO Community

1483
00:58:09,049 --> 00:58:07,619
there used to be all of these silos you

1484
00:58:10,849 --> 00:58:09,059
know there's a paranormal people there's

1485
00:58:12,910 --> 00:58:10,859
Bigfoot people there's the UFO people

1486
00:58:14,809 --> 00:58:12,920
and the weirdos fear was very

1487
00:58:16,609 --> 00:58:14,819
compartmentalized but people are

1488
00:58:18,650 --> 00:58:16,619
beginning to sort of Branch out and to

1489
00:58:20,569 --> 00:58:18,660
recognize that the various phenomena

1490
00:58:23,030 --> 00:58:20,579
that we're talking about seem to play by

1491
00:58:25,010 --> 00:58:23,040
kind of similar rules and it seems like

1492
00:58:28,370 --> 00:58:25,020
you guys have found a really interesting

1493
00:58:31,069 --> 00:58:28,380
and intellectual way of approaching

1494
00:58:32,510 --> 00:58:31,079
these ideas so I would love if you

1495
00:58:34,790 --> 00:58:32,520
wouldn't mind it just take a few minutes

1496
00:58:37,010 --> 00:58:34,800
and talk to the listeners who may not

1497
00:58:40,069 --> 00:58:37,020
have heard your podcast before about

1498
00:58:42,410 --> 00:58:40,079
what weird studies is and sort of how it

1499
00:58:43,789 --> 00:58:42,420
came to be

1500
00:58:46,630 --> 00:58:43,799
yeah

1501
00:58:49,569 --> 00:58:46,640
um well we started weird studies in 2018

1502
00:58:52,250 --> 00:58:49,579
after a very intense

1503
00:58:54,650 --> 00:58:52,260
correspondence between Phil and myself

1504
00:58:58,250 --> 00:58:54,660
that lasted what that started in 2016

1505
00:58:59,809 --> 00:58:58,260
Phil yeah 2000 yeah so a podcast kind of

1506
00:59:02,809 --> 00:58:59,819
grew out of those

1507
00:59:04,010 --> 00:59:02,819
exchanges that we were having and

1508
00:59:07,549 --> 00:59:04,020
um

1509
00:59:11,510 --> 00:59:07,559
the point of contact for Phil and me was

1510
00:59:15,130 --> 00:59:11,520
that we love to find that zone that

1511
00:59:17,870 --> 00:59:15,140
place in an idea or in a concept where

1512
00:59:20,150 --> 00:59:17,880
thought failed us where we couldn't

1513
00:59:22,309 --> 00:59:20,160
quite know what it was we were saying

1514
00:59:24,170 --> 00:59:22,319
anymore when we were stepping into a

1515
00:59:26,270 --> 00:59:24,180
territory that was

1516
00:59:28,670 --> 00:59:26,280
somehow like

1517
00:59:31,849 --> 00:59:28,680
innately and maybe

1518
00:59:34,849 --> 00:59:31,859
inexorably ambiguous and strange and so

1519
00:59:37,789 --> 00:59:34,859
this kind of like hunting for the weird

1520
00:59:39,650 --> 00:59:37,799
and things that maybe otherwise quite

1521
00:59:41,569 --> 00:59:39,660
familiar to us like we've done shows on

1522
00:59:43,190 --> 00:59:41,579
Raiders of the Lost Ark and movies like

1523
00:59:47,089 --> 00:59:43,200
that so we love to try to we'd love to

1524
00:59:50,089 --> 00:59:47,099
take cultural objects or ideas or even

1525
00:59:52,730 --> 00:59:50,099
occasionally news items and try to find

1526
00:59:55,069 --> 00:59:52,740
that nugget of weirdness in there that

1527
00:59:57,010 --> 00:59:55,079
little that makes it impossible

1528
01:00:00,170 --> 00:59:57,020
for us to completely

1529
01:00:01,609 --> 01:00:00,180
assimilate what we're looking at and so

1530
01:00:03,410 --> 01:00:01,619
that's what we do on the show and we do

1531
01:00:05,809 --> 01:00:03,420
that in different ways often we'll talk

1532
01:00:07,849 --> 01:00:05,819
about a novel or a film or the work of a

1533
01:00:10,190 --> 01:00:07,859
philosopher and we always try to find

1534
01:00:12,829 --> 01:00:10,200
that zone of indeterminacy where things

1535
01:00:15,289 --> 01:00:12,839
get strange and of course that lends

1536
01:00:17,750 --> 01:00:15,299
that project lends itself to an

1537
01:00:19,910 --> 01:00:17,760
investigation of stuff like UFOs and the

1538
01:00:22,490 --> 01:00:19,920
Paranormal and those topics often

1539
01:00:24,650 --> 01:00:22,500
surface in our conversations as well

1540
01:00:29,510 --> 01:00:24,660
you know my entry point with this was

1541
01:00:32,990 --> 01:00:29,520
magic and like spiritual practice and I

1542
01:00:36,650 --> 01:00:33,000
spent quite a few years developing my

1543
01:00:38,390 --> 01:00:36,660
own private Curiosities and researches

1544
01:00:41,150 --> 01:00:38,400
around that subject

1545
01:00:42,890 --> 01:00:41,160
and was sort of resigned to never being

1546
01:00:45,349 --> 01:00:42,900
able to talk about this stuff with

1547
01:00:47,569 --> 01:00:45,359
anyone in the intellectual world because

1548
01:00:49,549 --> 01:00:47,579
it's so remote from where I

1549
01:00:51,170 --> 01:00:49,559
where I pitch my tent I'm an academic

1550
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:51,180
humanist I'm a professor at the Indiana

1551
01:00:55,309 --> 01:00:53,040
University Jacob School of Music I'm a

1552
01:00:58,010 --> 01:00:55,319
music historian not exactly a field

1553
01:01:00,589 --> 01:00:58,020
known for its explorations of the weird

1554
01:01:02,150 --> 01:01:00,599
but then JF and I met through a kind of

1555
01:01:03,770 --> 01:01:02,160
an interesting happenstance I read his

1556
01:01:05,569 --> 01:01:03,780
book which by the way everybody should

1557
01:01:07,730 --> 01:01:05,579
read proclaiming art in the age of

1558
01:01:10,730 --> 01:01:07,740
artifice and

1559
01:01:12,829 --> 01:01:10,740
found somebody I could talk to somebody

1560
01:01:14,569 --> 01:01:12,839
who seemingly had read all of the books

1561
01:01:17,450 --> 01:01:14,579
that I had read had had many of the same

1562
01:01:20,329 --> 01:01:17,460
kinds of experiences that I had had and

1563
01:01:21,950 --> 01:01:20,339
from there this correspondence uh began

1564
01:01:24,470 --> 01:01:21,960
and I like what JF just said it's just

1565
01:01:26,870 --> 01:01:24,480
like a lot of our talking begins where

1566
01:01:30,010 --> 01:01:26,880
thought has kind of failed us or at

1567
01:01:33,289 --> 01:01:30,020
least stalled out and it is in Talking

1568
01:01:35,630 --> 01:01:33,299
that we are able to find new ways of

1569
01:01:37,730 --> 01:01:35,640
framing things that kind of don't make

1570
01:01:39,950 --> 01:01:37,740
sense and things that don't make sense

1571
01:01:41,569 --> 01:01:39,960
uh or at least don't make a certain kind

1572
01:01:43,549 --> 01:01:41,579
of conventional sense but they might

1573
01:01:46,930 --> 01:01:43,559
make some other kind of sense some

1574
01:01:50,329 --> 01:01:46,940
higher coherence and coherences with

1575
01:01:52,970 --> 01:01:50,339
unexpected connected phenomena that is

1576
01:01:55,490 --> 01:01:52,980
really where we have ended up going so

1577
01:01:57,530 --> 01:01:55,500
that could be weirding like a seemingly

1578
01:01:59,690 --> 01:01:57,540
kind of normal piece of culture like

1579
01:02:02,569 --> 01:01:59,700
Raiders of the Lost Ark seeing what

1580
01:02:04,730 --> 01:02:02,579
about it is has this kind of nuclear

1581
01:02:07,670 --> 01:02:04,740
force of the weird or for that matter

1582
01:02:10,010 --> 01:02:07,680
talking about genuinely strange stuff

1583
01:02:13,030 --> 01:02:10,020
off stuff that is not usually a part of

1584
01:02:17,510 --> 01:02:13,040
the academic Humanities or philosophy

1585
01:02:19,370 --> 01:02:17,520
and finding affordances for a more

1586
01:02:21,349 --> 01:02:19,380
conventional intellectual practice from

1587
01:02:23,569 --> 01:02:21,359
figures like for example Aleister

1588
01:02:27,710 --> 01:02:23,579
Crowley who I think is a very major

1589
01:02:31,730 --> 01:02:27,720
figure in Western thought John Keel John

1590
01:02:33,049 --> 01:02:31,740
Keel yeah yeah yeah so we we range quite

1591
01:02:35,870 --> 01:02:33,059
a bit yeah

1592
01:02:38,329 --> 01:02:35,880
when I listen to your podcast I hear so

1593
01:02:40,670 --> 01:02:38,339
many overlaps like I think when I

1594
01:02:42,109 --> 01:02:40,680
started it was a dear friend of mine his

1595
01:02:43,670 --> 01:02:42,119
name is David Bates he was one of my

1596
01:02:46,069 --> 01:02:43,680
first friends that I made in the UFO

1597
01:02:48,109 --> 01:02:46,079
space and he recommended your podcast to

1598
01:02:49,670 --> 01:02:48,119
me and I flew through it was all of the

1599
01:02:51,530 --> 01:02:49,680
young episodes and then I believe the

1600
01:02:54,230 --> 01:02:51,540
episodes and then I went to the

1601
01:02:56,510 --> 01:02:54,240
Keel episodes I was done I was like I

1602
01:02:58,130 --> 01:02:56,520
love this podcast so much and I feel

1603
01:03:00,530 --> 01:02:58,140
like although you guys rarely talk about

1604
01:03:03,650 --> 01:03:00,540
UFOs that you're circling around those

1605
01:03:05,089 --> 01:03:03,660
same sorts of ideas and I felt like you

1606
01:03:06,650 --> 01:03:05,099
guys were such a natural fit for this

1607
01:03:08,750 --> 01:03:06,660
because of exactly what you were talking

1608
01:03:10,670 --> 01:03:08,760
about Phil which is that

1609
01:03:12,410 --> 01:03:10,680
traditionally there haven't been a ton

1610
01:03:14,930 --> 01:03:12,420
of academics who have been able who have

1611
01:03:16,730 --> 01:03:14,940
been willing to talk about the weird

1612
01:03:19,250 --> 01:03:16,740
much less make it kind of like the

1613
01:03:22,010 --> 01:03:19,260
center of their work but we have people

1614
01:03:24,829 --> 01:03:22,020
like yourselves we've got Dr Daniel we

1615
01:03:26,569 --> 01:03:24,839
have uh Dr Michael Masters coming and so

1616
01:03:28,670 --> 01:03:26,579
many more people who will be there I

1617
01:03:30,710 --> 01:03:28,680
think that it's so important to we're

1618
01:03:33,230 --> 01:03:30,720
kind of creating our own little platonic

1619
01:03:35,630 --> 01:03:33,240
academies of the internet with dervies

1620
01:03:37,910 --> 01:03:35,640
and I'm excited by that and I think

1621
01:03:39,890 --> 01:03:37,920
there's an opening right now you know uh

1622
01:03:41,750 --> 01:03:39,900
there's an opening even within Academia

1623
01:03:44,089 --> 01:03:41,760
I think thanks to people like Diane

1624
01:03:46,849 --> 01:03:44,099
pasilka or Phil Ford or Michael Masters

1625
01:03:49,250 --> 01:03:46,859
like a wedge has been driven into the

1626
01:03:52,910 --> 01:03:49,260
body academic for lack of a better terms

1627
01:03:55,490 --> 01:03:52,920
and allows some of this stuff in so that

1628
01:03:57,890 --> 01:03:55,500
has great promise but also potential

1629
01:04:00,530 --> 01:03:57,900
dangers that a lot of these ideas become

1630
01:04:03,109 --> 01:04:00,540
commodified or wrapped up in conceptual

1631
01:04:06,049 --> 01:04:03,119
apparatuses that make them

1632
01:04:08,890 --> 01:04:06,059
not so weird anymore or simply people

1633
01:04:12,170 --> 01:04:08,900
jumping too hastily to a conclusion

1634
01:04:14,089 --> 01:04:12,180
exactly yeah you know people who I mean

1635
01:04:16,549 --> 01:04:14,099
there's that the weird is among other

1636
01:04:19,250 --> 01:04:16,559
things of feeling and it's a feel an

1637
01:04:21,910 --> 01:04:19,260
unsettled feeling where you are you find

1638
01:04:24,950 --> 01:04:21,920
yourself suspended between explanations

1639
01:04:28,250 --> 01:04:24,960
and that is not something that the human

1640
01:04:33,230 --> 01:04:28,260
organism uh feels as a comfortable

1641
01:04:35,329 --> 01:04:33,240
settled place like you want to reach out

1642
01:04:37,849 --> 01:04:35,339
of that unsettled condition and find

1643
01:04:40,730 --> 01:04:37,859
closure or something to hold on to and I

1644
01:04:42,289 --> 01:04:40,740
do that as much as anybody but as a

1645
01:04:45,349 --> 01:04:42,299
gesture of thought

1646
01:04:47,750 --> 01:04:45,359
the idea of keeping it open just a

1647
01:04:49,970 --> 01:04:47,760
little bit longer let the let it get a

1648
01:04:53,569 --> 01:04:49,980
little uncomfy you know let it get weird

1649
01:04:56,569 --> 01:04:53,579
there because that discomfort can lead

1650
01:04:58,670 --> 01:04:56,579
to productive places

1651
01:05:00,230 --> 01:04:58,680
um and so yeah some of this is just

1652
01:05:03,410 --> 01:05:00,240
trying to put off

1653
01:05:05,930 --> 01:05:03,420
the just jumping to a quick explanation

1654
01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:05,940
a little too quickly yeah that's a great

1655
01:05:10,250 --> 01:05:07,200
way of putting like

1656
01:05:12,049 --> 01:05:10,260
it's speaking specifically to the UFO

1657
01:05:14,750 --> 01:05:12,059
phenomenon I think that if you look at

1658
01:05:17,329 --> 01:05:14,760
that phenomenon

1659
01:05:18,829 --> 01:05:17,339
kind of from the outside with one foot

1660
01:05:20,150 --> 01:05:18,839
in right because you always need one

1661
01:05:20,930 --> 01:05:20,160
foot in

1662
01:05:23,569 --> 01:05:20,940
um

1663
01:05:24,770 --> 01:05:23,579
you'll notice that expectancy and I

1664
01:05:27,170 --> 01:05:24,780
think that's probably one of the key

1665
01:05:29,930 --> 01:05:27,180
affects of of the weird is expectancy

1666
01:05:31,549 --> 01:05:29,940
something's about to happen or something

1667
01:05:33,530 --> 01:05:31,559
has happened but you don't know what it

1668
01:05:36,530 --> 01:05:33,540
is something has changed but you don't

1669
01:05:38,089 --> 01:05:36,540
have access cognitive access to what it

1670
01:05:39,130 --> 01:05:38,099
is that's changing to what it is that's

1671
01:05:41,930 --> 01:05:39,140
happening

1672
01:05:44,510 --> 01:05:41,940
expectancy is structurally part of that

1673
01:05:47,210 --> 01:05:44,520
phenomenon the idea that something is

1674
01:05:50,569 --> 01:05:47,220
coming the disclosure is at hand that

1675
01:05:53,089 --> 01:05:50,579
contact is imminent is itself it seems

1676
01:05:55,490 --> 01:05:53,099
to me a part of that phenomenon now

1677
01:05:57,230 --> 01:05:55,500
that's not to say that there isn't the

1678
01:05:59,270 --> 01:05:57,240
real possibility of some kind of

1679
01:06:01,789 --> 01:05:59,280
disclosure or some kind of contact I'm

1680
01:06:04,130 --> 01:06:01,799
not saying that those but it it seems

1681
01:06:07,670 --> 01:06:04,140
also it seems to me that you can

1682
01:06:09,430 --> 01:06:07,680
Envision contact having occurred the

1683
01:06:12,770 --> 01:06:09,440
whole phenomenon becoming quite normal

1684
01:06:14,450 --> 01:06:12,780
and in fact what I find is among some

1685
01:06:16,490 --> 01:06:14,460
people who have drawn really firm

1686
01:06:19,010 --> 01:06:16,500
conclusions as to what's going on that

1687
01:06:21,470 --> 01:06:19,020
the Pleiadians are the ones contacting

1688
01:06:24,109 --> 01:06:21,480
us or whatever for them

1689
01:06:25,910 --> 01:06:24,119
uh it says it's as normal as that a

1690
01:06:28,430 --> 01:06:25,920
chicken is a chicken you know it's just

1691
01:06:30,950 --> 01:06:28,440
like you know there play audience or so

1692
01:06:33,170 --> 01:06:30,960
it there's a zone of indeterminate since

1693
01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:33,180
we don't really know what's going on

1694
01:06:38,990 --> 01:06:36,480
it seems like we need to cultivate that

1695
01:06:41,210 --> 01:06:39,000
structural component of expectancy and

1696
01:06:43,789 --> 01:06:41,220
let ourselves remain as you know John

1697
01:06:46,130 --> 01:06:43,799
John Keats as opposed to John Keel John

1698
01:06:49,010 --> 01:06:46,140
Keats put it to remain in what he called

1699
01:06:51,770 --> 01:06:49,020
negative capability right the capacity

1700
01:06:53,809 --> 01:06:51,780
to dwell in unknowing without any

1701
01:06:57,010 --> 01:06:53,819
irritable reaching after fact or Reason

1702
01:07:00,650 --> 01:06:57,020
and that to me is part of what makes

1703
01:07:03,710 --> 01:07:00,660
such areas as like UFO research so

1704
01:07:05,569 --> 01:07:03,720
compelling and my favorite researchers

1705
01:07:07,789 --> 01:07:05,579
are always the ones who although they're

1706
01:07:09,410 --> 01:07:07,799
willing think I really believe in the

1707
01:07:10,910 --> 01:07:09,420
idea that you can investigate and find

1708
01:07:14,150 --> 01:07:10,920
things out and I believe in fact

1709
01:07:17,510 --> 01:07:14,160
absolutely at the same time they are

1710
01:07:20,210 --> 01:07:17,520
people who are able to remain always in

1711
01:07:23,289 --> 01:07:20,220
that zone of negative capability which

1712
01:07:28,250 --> 01:07:25,849
defines everything in life not just UFOs

1713
01:07:30,170 --> 01:07:28,260
but even like your microwave has a

1714
01:07:33,349 --> 01:07:30,180
nugget of strangeness in it that makes

1715
01:07:35,029 --> 01:07:33,359
it never fully knowable to you so just

1716
01:07:37,270 --> 01:07:35,039
cultivating that capacity I think is

1717
01:07:39,829 --> 01:07:37,280
gonna is what it's one of our best tools

1718
01:07:41,089 --> 01:07:39,839
for investigating this sort of thing I

1719
01:07:47,210 --> 01:07:41,099
think

1720
01:07:50,029 --> 01:07:47,220
it's really dangerous to draw

1721
01:07:51,770 --> 01:07:50,039
conclusions I think that when I was in

1722
01:07:54,470 --> 01:07:51,780
New York in December at the inquire

1723
01:07:56,809 --> 01:07:54,480
anomalous conference listening to

1724
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:56,819
Whitley strieber talk and he was talking

1725
01:08:02,329 --> 01:07:59,520
about his dear late wife who would say

1726
01:08:04,789 --> 01:08:02,339
that as a species that were too young to

1727
01:08:06,289 --> 01:08:04,799
have answers that we at this point just

1728
01:08:08,990 --> 01:08:06,299
need to be working on putting together

1729
01:08:11,510 --> 01:08:09,000
the right questions and that's what's so

1730
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:11,520
exciting about taking a more sort of

1731
01:08:16,249 --> 01:08:13,920
intellectual approach to this and

1732
01:08:17,809 --> 01:08:16,259
including people from the humanities and

1733
01:08:19,490 --> 01:08:17,819
people you know from across different

1734
01:08:21,769 --> 01:08:19,500
fields so that we can have all of these

1735
01:08:23,689 --> 01:08:21,779
different perspectives on this so that

1736
01:08:26,390 --> 01:08:23,699
we can start to figure out like how do

1737
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:26,400
we even how do we even begin to form the

1738
01:08:29,689 --> 01:08:28,319
right questions about this phenomenon

1739
01:08:31,010 --> 01:08:29,699
but to speak to something you were

1740
01:08:32,990 --> 01:08:31,020
saying a little earlier you know how do

1741
01:08:34,249 --> 01:08:33,000
we do it with an event like this where

1742
01:08:35,689 --> 01:08:34,259
we're going to get it out we're going to

1743
01:08:37,490 --> 01:08:35,699
use the media right because we have to

1744
01:08:39,110 --> 01:08:37,500
talk to as many people as possible we're

1745
01:08:40,789 --> 01:08:39,120
going to have events somebody's probably

1746
01:08:43,910 --> 01:08:40,799
going to have a merge table but how do

1747
01:08:46,490 --> 01:08:43,920
we do this without turning the topic in

1748
01:08:48,289 --> 01:08:46,500
itself into a widget how do we not how

1749
01:08:49,689 --> 01:08:48,299
do we keep it in that place where it's

1750
01:08:53,329 --> 01:08:49,699
not a product where it's a question

1751
01:08:55,550 --> 01:08:53,339
right questions don't sell as well one

1752
01:08:58,550 --> 01:08:55,560
thought I have actually and you're I

1753
01:09:01,669 --> 01:08:58,560
love what JF just said about there

1754
01:09:06,169 --> 01:09:01,679
there's an affect like a feeling that

1755
01:09:07,910 --> 01:09:06,179
goes with mystery with the weird and

1756
01:09:09,890 --> 01:09:07,920
that brings up

1757
01:09:11,749 --> 01:09:09,900
I think a really important aspect of

1758
01:09:15,410 --> 01:09:11,759
where we're coming from which is not

1759
01:09:18,650 --> 01:09:15,420
just the humanities but like art we are

1760
01:09:24,950 --> 01:09:18,660
take no prisoners heart for down from

1761
01:09:28,130 --> 01:09:24,960
day one art freaks we love art and

1762
01:09:30,530 --> 01:09:28,140
when we're talking about UFOs

1763
01:09:32,510 --> 01:09:30,540
this extraordinarily complex and

1764
01:09:35,570 --> 01:09:32,520
mysterious phenomenon

1765
01:09:38,090 --> 01:09:35,580
everybody can help out you know science

1766
01:09:41,269 --> 01:09:38,100
obviously has a very large role to play

1767
01:09:43,309 --> 01:09:41,279
in this religion has a role to play in

1768
01:09:45,950 --> 01:09:43,319
this and

1769
01:09:48,650 --> 01:09:45,960
I think art does as well or the

1770
01:09:51,650 --> 01:09:48,660
aesthetic because one thing perhaps to

1771
01:09:53,209 --> 01:09:51,660
answer that question what do we do to

1772
01:09:57,950 --> 01:09:53,219
keep this from becoming just another

1773
01:10:02,510 --> 01:09:57,960
widget just a thing or a commodity is to

1774
01:10:06,010 --> 01:10:02,520
stay close to that aesthetic moment of

1775
01:10:10,910 --> 01:10:06,020
Unknowing that ex aesthetic moment of

1776
01:10:14,410 --> 01:10:10,920
expectancy what are the aesthetic forms

1777
01:10:16,490 --> 01:10:14,420
what are the shapes of Investigation

1778
01:10:19,070 --> 01:10:16,500
these things and

1779
01:10:21,590 --> 01:10:19,080
these things to me constitute something

1780
01:10:23,689 --> 01:10:21,600
very real real core not you know the

1781
01:10:26,990 --> 01:10:23,699
core of the phenomenon in the sense that

1782
01:10:28,970 --> 01:10:27,000
like oh the UFOs and so on are just like

1783
01:10:29,930 --> 01:10:28,980
figments of artistic imagination I'm not

1784
01:10:34,729 --> 01:10:29,940
saying that

1785
01:10:37,250 --> 01:10:34,739
life that we are living has this

1786
01:10:38,870 --> 01:10:37,260
aesthetic Dimension and staying close to

1787
01:10:40,790 --> 01:10:38,880
that I think is staying close to the

1788
01:10:43,910 --> 01:10:40,800
mystery

1789
01:10:46,850 --> 01:10:43,920
um no yeah it's a story and we find

1790
01:10:48,890 --> 01:10:46,860
ourselves involved caught up in a story

1791
01:10:51,290 --> 01:10:48,900
this is clear when you read like keel's

1792
01:10:53,689 --> 01:10:51,300
work he was very much aware that he was

1793
01:10:55,669 --> 01:10:53,699
being written he was not just you know I

1794
01:10:57,590 --> 01:10:55,679
think that's how puts it that

1795
01:10:59,870 --> 01:10:57,600
the authors of the impossible are those

1796
01:11:01,370 --> 01:10:59,880
who realize that as they're writing the

1797
01:11:03,470 --> 01:11:01,380
story of their let's say their

1798
01:11:05,870 --> 01:11:03,480
investigations they are being written in

1799
01:11:08,990 --> 01:11:05,880
some other Story and there's a story

1800
01:11:11,689 --> 01:11:09,000
quality to this phenomenon how many

1801
01:11:14,630 --> 01:11:11,699
examples do we have of people getting

1802
01:11:17,090 --> 01:11:14,640
swept up into it at Great costs

1803
01:11:19,130 --> 01:11:17,100
sometimes to their on the life front you

1804
01:11:21,290 --> 01:11:19,140
know and realizing afterwards that

1805
01:11:24,010 --> 01:11:21,300
they've been swept into some other

1806
01:11:27,050 --> 01:11:24,020
someone else's story or some other

1807
01:11:29,149 --> 01:11:27,060
entity's story and that means that the

1808
01:11:31,490 --> 01:11:29,159
techniques we've developed for analyzing

1809
01:11:34,669 --> 01:11:31,500
artworks as Phil was just saying

1810
01:11:37,790 --> 01:11:34,679
techniques of art analysis literary

1811
01:11:40,430 --> 01:11:37,800
critical techniques how do we think

1812
01:11:42,890 --> 01:11:40,440
about stories how do stories work these

1813
01:11:45,290 --> 01:11:42,900
can become tools for investigating this

1814
01:11:47,810 --> 01:11:45,300
phenomenon since it has a kind of story

1815
01:11:49,310 --> 01:11:47,820
structure to it right that's part of the

1816
01:11:51,350 --> 01:11:49,320
that's why expectancy is so Central

1817
01:11:53,570 --> 01:11:51,360
because expectancy is what you want to

1818
01:11:56,209 --> 01:11:53,580
cultivate in someone to whom you're

1819
01:11:58,250 --> 01:11:56,219
telling a story there's suspense in it

1820
01:12:00,229 --> 01:11:58,260
there's plot in it there's tricks there

1821
01:12:01,669 --> 01:12:00,239
are plot twists in it and it you can

1822
01:12:04,370 --> 01:12:01,679
approach the phenomenon from the

1823
01:12:06,229 --> 01:12:04,380
perspective of a literary critic

1824
01:12:08,810 --> 01:12:06,239
um and you find yourself in the bizarre

1825
01:12:11,450 --> 01:12:08,820
position of doing a critical literary

1826
01:12:13,669 --> 01:12:11,460
analysis of reality itself which in

1827
01:12:16,070 --> 01:12:13,679
itself is strange but also I think

1828
01:12:17,570 --> 01:12:16,080
filled with affordances for thinking the

1829
01:12:19,850 --> 01:12:17,580
stuff through right

1830
01:12:21,770 --> 01:12:19,860
I completely agree I will actually at

1831
01:12:24,050 --> 01:12:21,780
this conference be presenting my own

1832
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:24,060
work for the first time the podcast is

1833
01:12:28,610 --> 01:12:26,640
sort of a meta-synthesis of the field

1834
01:12:30,110 --> 01:12:28,620
but the work that I'm doing is exactly

1835
01:12:32,390 --> 01:12:30,120
what you're talking about I'm doing

1836
01:12:34,070 --> 01:12:32,400
research into the technology of

1837
01:12:36,590 --> 01:12:34,080
Storytelling because I think that one of

1838
01:12:39,050 --> 01:12:36,600
the most compelling aspects of this

1839
01:12:42,169 --> 01:12:39,060
entire phenomenon is the impact that it

1840
01:12:44,270 --> 01:12:42,179
has on the human psyche and I think that

1841
01:12:45,350 --> 01:12:44,280
there's just a wealth of insights that

1842
01:12:46,610 --> 01:12:45,360
can be drawn from that so I'll be

1843
01:12:47,930 --> 01:12:46,620
talking about that for the first time at

1844
01:12:51,110 --> 01:12:47,940
the conference actually well that's

1845
01:12:52,430 --> 01:12:51,120
exciting that's awesome yeah so yeah

1846
01:12:54,290 --> 01:12:52,440
thanks for teeing me up that was perfect

1847
01:12:54,890 --> 01:12:54,300
didn't even plan that

1848
01:12:57,350 --> 01:12:54,900
um

1849
01:12:59,390 --> 01:12:57,360
so I feel like I think a lot of people

1850
01:13:02,270 --> 01:12:59,400
get this sense that the world is getting

1851
01:13:03,770 --> 01:13:02,280
weirder like why do you think that why

1852
01:13:05,570 --> 01:13:03,780
do you think that is

1853
01:13:08,410 --> 01:13:05,580
we're waiting each other out because

1854
01:13:12,229 --> 01:13:08,420
everybody's like anyone later

1855
01:13:13,970 --> 01:13:12,239
it's your turn I don't know actually I

1856
01:13:16,070 --> 01:13:13,980
asked myself this question all the time

1857
01:13:18,169 --> 01:13:16,080
but I know that it is getting weirder I

1858
01:13:20,390 --> 01:13:18,179
mean the low-hanging fruit commonplace

1859
01:13:22,729 --> 01:13:20,400
answers like well we're

1860
01:13:25,209 --> 01:13:22,739
the world up here you know that

1861
01:13:27,050 --> 01:13:25,219
things are getting worse and worse

1862
01:13:28,910 --> 01:13:27,060
environmentally out of control

1863
01:13:31,850 --> 01:13:28,920
technology that we don't like understand

1864
01:13:34,310 --> 01:13:31,860
even as we're building it I could go on

1865
01:13:36,830 --> 01:13:34,320
I mean and so could our listeners Supply

1866
01:13:39,290 --> 01:13:36,840
your own list of your favorite

1867
01:13:42,470 --> 01:13:39,300
apocalypses that you are pretty sure are

1868
01:13:45,169 --> 01:13:42,480
on the horizon uh anytime now

1869
01:13:48,770 --> 01:13:45,179
um there is this strange feeling of

1870
01:13:50,630 --> 01:13:48,780
being at the end of something and again

1871
01:13:52,310 --> 01:13:50,640
it's a feeling there's something there's

1872
01:13:55,910 --> 01:13:52,320
an aesthetic to that what is the feeling

1873
01:13:59,270 --> 01:13:55,920
of being at the end of something being

1874
01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:59,280
but I don't think that it's the end of

1875
01:14:03,229 --> 01:14:01,199
something I think it's

1876
01:14:05,209 --> 01:14:03,239
both the end of something and the

1877
01:14:07,550 --> 01:14:05,219
beginning of something else

1878
01:14:10,250 --> 01:14:07,560
yeah we don't know what that is that is

1879
01:14:13,910 --> 01:14:10,260
a mystery and yet there is this General

1880
01:14:17,689 --> 01:14:13,920
sense of like hurtling towards some kind

1881
01:14:21,590 --> 01:14:17,699
of brand punctuation in the vast

1882
01:14:24,410 --> 01:14:21,600
sentence of human existence

1883
01:14:26,570 --> 01:14:24,420
absolutely yeah if I might just uh

1884
01:14:28,370 --> 01:14:26,580
because as part of the of the research

1885
01:14:30,830 --> 01:14:28,380
I'm doing right now I was I reread

1886
01:14:32,870 --> 01:14:30,840
Samuel Beckett's great essay on proust

1887
01:14:34,970 --> 01:14:32,880
which is really an essay on Samuel

1888
01:14:37,970 --> 01:14:34,980
Beckett's ideas about time

1889
01:14:39,890 --> 01:14:37,980
and in there he describes the tedium of

1890
01:14:41,870 --> 01:14:39,900
Modern Life you know the kind of like

1891
01:14:44,810 --> 01:14:41,880
the way we develop very strong habits

1892
01:14:47,930 --> 01:14:44,820
and we've also created all these systems

1893
01:14:50,510 --> 01:14:47,940
that nurture habit formation right

1894
01:14:52,729 --> 01:14:50,520
routines maybe the ultimate expression

1895
01:14:55,550 --> 01:14:52,739
of this is like cult like life in a

1896
01:14:58,490 --> 01:14:55,560
corporate setting you know the Die Hard

1897
01:15:00,649 --> 01:14:58,500
the fiscal year the work day these

1898
01:15:01,910 --> 01:15:00,659
routines that we've created I mean these

1899
01:15:04,250 --> 01:15:01,920
aren't cycles that were out there in

1900
01:15:06,530 --> 01:15:04,260
nature we made them in order to create a

1901
01:15:07,310 --> 01:15:06,540
society that nurtured encourage habit

1902
01:15:09,590 --> 01:15:07,320
making

1903
01:15:11,570 --> 01:15:09,600
so the more habits you have the more

1904
01:15:14,930 --> 01:15:11,580
you're kind of caught up in routines and

1905
01:15:17,810 --> 01:15:14,940
algorithms that make every day seem like

1906
01:15:20,030 --> 01:15:17,820
the same but more tedious life becomes

1907
01:15:21,830 --> 01:15:20,040
and the feeling of the affect speaking

1908
01:15:24,050 --> 01:15:21,840
of the affect of tedium is one of the

1909
01:15:27,110 --> 01:15:24,060
great themes of 20th century art a lot

1910
01:15:28,850 --> 01:15:27,120
of the great novels and films and poems

1911
01:15:31,910 --> 01:15:28,860
of the 20th century were about how to

1912
01:15:33,890 --> 01:15:31,920
break the tedium of modern existence and

1913
01:15:34,970 --> 01:15:33,900
what Beckett says in that essay is that

1914
01:15:37,070 --> 01:15:34,980
sometimes

1915
01:15:38,990 --> 01:15:37,080
your habits fail you something happens

1916
01:15:42,590 --> 01:15:39,000
that makes it impossible

1917
01:15:47,330 --> 01:15:42,600
for the habits to continue and in those

1918
01:15:50,450 --> 01:15:47,340
moments you wake up to what the habits

1919
01:15:51,530 --> 01:15:50,460
serve to conceal you become aware of the

1920
01:15:53,990 --> 01:15:51,540
background

1921
01:15:57,410 --> 01:15:54,000
and that's always unsettling because the

1922
01:15:59,090 --> 01:15:57,420
background is not attuned to your habits

1923
01:16:01,790 --> 01:15:59,100
your habits are attuned to the

1924
01:16:03,709 --> 01:16:01,800
background but your habits allow you to

1925
01:16:05,930 --> 01:16:03,719
ignore the background but this is

1926
01:16:08,149 --> 01:16:05,940
mcluhan Right mcluhan Said that

1927
01:16:11,209 --> 01:16:08,159
sometimes the background reveals itself

1928
01:16:13,310 --> 01:16:11,219
and when that happens it's unsettling

1929
01:16:15,470 --> 01:16:13,320
because it shows the artifice of all our

1930
01:16:18,110 --> 01:16:15,480
habits it shows that all of our habits

1931
01:16:19,850 --> 01:16:18,120
aren't fully adequate to the background

1932
01:16:21,950 --> 01:16:19,860
there's infinitely more out there than

1933
01:16:25,010 --> 01:16:21,960
we thought I think we're there and every

1934
01:16:27,229 --> 01:16:25,020
system you know every habitual system

1935
01:16:29,330 --> 01:16:27,239
that we've designed is in crisis mode

1936
01:16:31,910 --> 01:16:29,340
right now ecologically politically

1937
01:16:34,430 --> 01:16:31,920
economically intellectually conceptually

1938
01:16:37,130 --> 01:16:34,440
the universe scientific for example yeah

1939
01:16:39,350 --> 01:16:37,140
every institution is in crisis so all of

1940
01:16:42,229 --> 01:16:39,360
these habits these habitual systems are

1941
01:16:45,410 --> 01:16:42,239
failing and so we're facing the kind of

1942
01:16:48,649 --> 01:16:45,420
open abyss of the unknowable of the the

1943
01:16:51,110 --> 01:16:48,659
infinite background and so we feel it we

1944
01:16:52,790 --> 01:16:51,120
feel that and that's a necessary thing

1945
01:16:54,770 --> 01:16:52,800
if you're are going to have a different

1946
01:16:56,450 --> 01:16:54,780
Society if we're going to change the

1947
01:16:57,830 --> 01:16:56,460
society the civilization we're going to

1948
01:17:01,490 --> 01:16:57,840
have to move through that zone of

1949
01:17:02,990 --> 01:17:01,500
indeterminacy and we're in it so yes it

1950
01:17:04,370 --> 01:17:03,000
is the end of something

1951
01:17:05,630 --> 01:17:04,380
hopefully it's the beginning of

1952
01:17:08,030 --> 01:17:05,640
something else but a lot of that will

1953
01:17:10,310 --> 01:17:08,040
come down to us are we able to navigate

1954
01:17:11,570 --> 01:17:10,320
those Troubled Waters of the unknown and

1955
01:17:14,990 --> 01:17:11,580
the unknowable

1956
01:17:16,729 --> 01:17:15,000
I think one succinct way of saying what

1957
01:17:19,930 --> 01:17:16,739
JF and I've just been saying now is just

1958
01:17:22,070 --> 01:17:19,940
like this feels like an initiation

1959
01:17:23,870 --> 01:17:22,080
planet-wide initiation that's how I felt

1960
01:17:27,110 --> 01:17:23,880
about covid

1961
01:17:29,330 --> 01:17:27,120
um I had a weird uh kind of um

1962
01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:29,340
what's the word

1963
01:17:36,530 --> 01:17:32,880
um prolapsis yes a weird prolapsis

1964
01:17:39,169 --> 01:17:36,540
that's the commonplace word that was

1965
01:17:41,209 --> 01:17:39,179
familiar to all of our listeners uh a

1966
01:17:44,030 --> 01:17:41,219
prophetic dream a prophetic dream okay

1967
01:17:45,709 --> 01:17:44,040
yeah I had a dream that in hindsight

1968
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:45,719
that the problem with prophetic dreams

1969
01:17:48,649 --> 01:17:47,280
is they make no sense until the thing

1970
01:17:51,530 --> 01:17:48,659
that they're telling you about happens

1971
01:17:53,270 --> 01:17:51,540
and they're like oh as moteng said

1972
01:17:56,750 --> 01:17:53,280
there's no divining like divining the

1973
01:17:58,729 --> 01:17:56,760
past yes that's really my skill is

1974
01:18:00,709 --> 01:17:58,739
dividing the past uh but I had this

1975
01:18:03,530 --> 01:18:00,719
dream several months before covet hit

1976
01:18:06,950 --> 01:18:03,540
and I remember feeling very strongly

1977
01:18:10,610 --> 01:18:06,960
that kovid was among other things in

1978
01:18:13,930 --> 01:18:10,620
intelligence a malignant intelligence a

1979
01:18:16,850 --> 01:18:13,940
demon if you like imagine that day

1980
01:18:18,350 --> 01:18:16,860
d-a-e-m-o-n Daemon that makes it sound a

1981
01:18:22,070 --> 01:18:18,360
little bit more academic and respectable

1982
01:18:24,770 --> 01:18:22,080
but some kind of intelligent entity

1983
01:18:26,390 --> 01:18:24,780
that wanted to do something with us and

1984
01:18:28,430 --> 01:18:26,400
we say us I mean like the entire planet

1985
01:18:29,630 --> 01:18:28,440
without exception

1986
01:18:31,550 --> 01:18:29,640
um

1987
01:18:33,229 --> 01:18:31,560
I remember at the beginning thinking of

1988
01:18:34,669 --> 01:18:33,239
a covet thinking oh I bet those guys at

1989
01:18:37,010 --> 01:18:34,679
the International Space Station are

1990
01:18:39,110 --> 01:18:37,020
feeling pretty smug right now uh yeah

1991
01:18:41,630 --> 01:18:39,120
but even they had to come down at some

1992
01:18:43,550 --> 01:18:41,640
point right uh no one escaped this

1993
01:18:45,709 --> 01:18:43,560
initiation this planet-wide initiation

1994
01:18:47,689 --> 01:18:45,719
this thing that wanted to put us through

1995
01:18:49,610 --> 01:18:47,699
our paces and I remember feeling I mean

1996
01:18:50,870 --> 01:18:49,620
partly because I had that it all kicked

1997
01:18:52,669 --> 01:18:50,880
off for me with this dream but I had

1998
01:18:55,550 --> 01:18:52,679
this feeling throughout the whole long

1999
01:18:58,189 --> 01:18:55,560
period of covid uh that it was that

2000
01:19:00,709 --> 01:18:58,199
there was something in this that was not

2001
01:19:02,630 --> 01:19:00,719
I'm not saying this in a happy uh

2002
01:19:04,970 --> 01:19:02,640
panglossia and everything's for the best

2003
01:19:07,010 --> 01:19:04,980
kind of way like you know and as a

2004
01:19:09,350 --> 01:19:07,020
result we all became spiritually aware

2005
01:19:11,390 --> 01:19:09,360
oh no because sometimes certainly not

2006
01:19:14,229 --> 01:19:11,400
has not happened that does not appear to

2007
01:19:16,669 --> 01:19:14,239
have happened no an initiation is scary

2008
01:19:19,070 --> 01:19:16,679
open-ended it is the cultivation of

2009
01:19:21,709 --> 01:19:19,080
exactly that unknowing that we were

2010
01:19:24,110 --> 01:19:21,719
talking about in uh potentially fatal

2011
01:19:26,750 --> 01:19:24,120
doses a real initiation is something you

2012
01:19:28,729 --> 01:19:26,760
don't know if you're gonna make it like

2013
01:19:30,770 --> 01:19:28,739
a true initiation

2014
01:19:32,930 --> 01:19:30,780
and it changes everything you know it

2015
01:19:34,910 --> 01:19:32,940
changes everything and hopefully that's

2016
01:19:37,310 --> 01:19:34,920
for the better I mean I two years ago

2017
01:19:39,050 --> 01:19:37,320
like two exactly two years ago UFOs

2018
01:19:40,729 --> 01:19:39,060
weren't even on my radar and I'm

2019
01:19:43,070 --> 01:19:40,739
currently planning a conference at

2020
01:19:44,810 --> 01:19:43,080
Wright-Patterson I walked away from my

2021
01:19:46,370 --> 01:19:44,820
entire career

2022
01:19:48,649 --> 01:19:46,380
um you know there's something about

2023
01:19:50,870 --> 01:19:48,659
there's and I'm not the only person I've

2024
01:19:52,370 --> 01:19:50,880
met so many people through this work who

2025
01:19:54,229 --> 01:19:52,380
have gone through something similar in

2026
01:19:56,270 --> 01:19:54,239
the last literally just two or three

2027
01:19:58,970 --> 01:19:56,280
years and I think there was something

2028
01:20:02,630 --> 01:19:58,980
about that initiation that we went

2029
01:20:04,669 --> 01:20:02,640
through with kovid that set everyone on

2030
01:20:07,310 --> 01:20:04,679
a different course For Better or For

2031
01:20:09,530 --> 01:20:07,320
Worse yeah yeah you're right and this is

2032
01:20:11,990 --> 01:20:09,540
how I feel and this is how I feel about

2033
01:20:16,250 --> 01:20:12,000
the UFO phenomenon or just like the

2034
01:20:18,830 --> 01:20:16,260
capital P phenomenon uh that big sticky

2035
01:20:22,250 --> 01:20:18,840
Gumball of interrelate somehow

2036
01:20:25,070 --> 01:20:22,260
interrelated strange phenomena

2037
01:20:26,890 --> 01:20:25,080
that it is it has always to me the

2038
01:20:28,550 --> 01:20:26,900
feeling of

2039
01:20:31,310 --> 01:20:28,560
initiation

2040
01:20:34,250 --> 01:20:31,320
and again that doesn't mean we're all

2041
01:20:37,189 --> 01:20:34,260
going to become enlightened beings uh it

2042
01:20:39,110 --> 01:20:37,199
might mean that our ass is oatmeal you

2043
01:20:41,270 --> 01:20:39,120
know it might that might be it for us

2044
01:20:43,189 --> 01:20:41,280
but there is this sort of sense that

2045
01:20:44,510 --> 01:20:43,199
however terrifying this is we're on some

2046
01:20:45,950 --> 01:20:44,520
kind of right sorry dude you were going

2047
01:20:47,450 --> 01:20:45,960
to say oh absolutely I just want to say

2048
01:20:49,250 --> 01:20:47,460
I agree with you and I think that's what

2049
01:20:52,430 --> 01:20:49,260
I mean when I say it's it's really up to

2050
01:20:56,990 --> 01:20:52,440
us it's really up to us to navigate that

2051
01:20:59,870 --> 01:20:57,000
zone and so the outcome is not certain I

2052
01:21:01,010 --> 01:20:59,880
have an allergy to theories of history

2053
01:21:08,630 --> 01:21:01,020
that

2054
01:21:11,450 --> 01:21:08,640
awoken to some enlightened State I I

2055
01:21:14,149 --> 01:21:11,460
don't believe that I think that we are

2056
01:21:16,550 --> 01:21:14,159
players on a stage and where it goes

2057
01:21:18,709 --> 01:21:16,560
really depends on what we do uh and

2058
01:21:20,689 --> 01:21:18,719
where we take the story and so all the

2059
01:21:22,910 --> 01:21:20,699
more reason to have conferences if it

2060
01:21:24,229 --> 01:21:22,920
was all pre-ordained if it was all in

2061
01:21:26,689 --> 01:21:24,239
the cards and there's nothing we can do

2062
01:21:28,850 --> 01:21:26,699
about it uh then we wouldn't need UFO

2063
01:21:31,310 --> 01:21:28,860
conferences we need them because it's

2064
01:21:33,410 --> 01:21:31,320
time to think uh we need to think this

2065
01:21:35,209 --> 01:21:33,420
stuff through we need to discuss it

2066
01:21:38,570 --> 01:21:35,219
openly we need to be honest with one

2067
01:21:41,330 --> 01:21:38,580
another we need to loosen the boundaries

2068
01:21:43,790 --> 01:21:41,340
between what we used to call quote

2069
01:21:45,950 --> 01:21:43,800
unquote imaginary and what we call used

2070
01:21:47,890 --> 01:21:45,960
to call quote unquote real because those

2071
01:21:50,209 --> 01:21:47,900
boundaries are already

2072
01:21:52,370 --> 01:21:50,219
much more porous than we ever thought

2073
01:21:55,189 --> 01:21:52,380
they were and so we need to talk about

2074
01:21:56,689 --> 01:21:55,199
this stuff uh well and the good news you

2075
01:21:58,370 --> 01:21:56,699
know yeah sorry I didn't interrupt but

2076
01:21:59,689 --> 01:21:58,380
but the good news is is all of this

2077
01:22:01,610 --> 01:21:59,699
going back to what we were talking about

2078
01:22:04,430 --> 01:22:01,620
earlier is that like our stories have

2079
01:22:05,810 --> 01:22:04,440
given us the blueprint the road map for

2080
01:22:08,390 --> 01:22:05,820
what we're supposed to do in this

2081
01:22:10,490 --> 01:22:08,400
situation when your house is thrown

2082
01:22:12,290 --> 01:22:10,500
around by a tornado and it drops you on

2083
01:22:14,390 --> 01:22:12,300
a witch and you don't know what the

2084
01:22:16,070 --> 01:22:14,400
world means anymore but what's the first

2085
01:22:18,890 --> 01:22:16,080
thing you do you got to go find friends

2086
01:22:20,810 --> 01:22:18,900
right and so that's what these

2087
01:22:22,610 --> 01:22:20,820
conferences are I feel like in so many

2088
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:22,620
ways and what the goal of them is and

2089
01:22:26,570 --> 01:22:24,239
what the intention of the organizers has

2090
01:22:28,550 --> 01:22:26,580
been is that like okay we've all we're

2091
01:22:30,770 --> 01:22:28,560
going through something crazy and so

2092
01:22:32,450 --> 01:22:30,780
those of us who are on that ride it's

2093
01:22:34,610 --> 01:22:32,460
time for us to find each other to team

2094
01:22:37,070 --> 01:22:34,620
up and to figure out what this thing is

2095
01:22:39,950 --> 01:22:37,080
and I'm so excited to be able to do that

2096
01:22:42,770 --> 01:22:39,960
and in such a cool location also I can't

2097
01:22:45,590 --> 01:22:42,780
I'm dying about how cool that is yeah

2098
01:22:48,530 --> 01:22:45,600
yeah it's got uh it's it's got the the

2099
01:22:50,330 --> 01:22:48,540
aura of lore and about it right because

2100
01:22:53,270 --> 01:22:50,340
it's the base where they sent the

2101
01:22:56,990 --> 01:22:53,280
wreckage from Roswell supposedly is it

2102
01:22:59,630 --> 01:22:57,000
not yeah yes absolutely so amazing can't

2103
01:23:01,729 --> 01:22:59,640
wait to be there looking forward to it

2104
01:23:03,890 --> 01:23:01,739
yeah I was just thinking of the that

2105
01:23:06,169 --> 01:23:03,900
well-known line from the original Zelda

2106
01:23:10,189 --> 01:23:06,179
video game it's dangerous to go alone

2107
01:23:13,790 --> 01:23:10,199
bring this and and by this I mean

2108
01:23:17,390 --> 01:23:13,800
the Ohio UFO Heritage conference bring

2109
01:23:18,649 --> 01:23:17,400
that I love that I I traveled I spent a

2110
01:23:20,350 --> 01:23:18,659
few years traveling with my best friend

2111
01:23:22,970 --> 01:23:20,360
we did a different country every month

2112
01:23:25,310 --> 01:23:22,980
and in that time like our thing was that

2113
01:23:26,750 --> 01:23:25,320
life is a Zelda game and that if you no

2114
01:23:28,970 --> 01:23:26,760
matter what country you're in whatever

2115
01:23:30,649 --> 01:23:28,980
we needed if you needed something the

2116
01:23:32,450 --> 01:23:30,659
trick was to go out into the world and

2117
01:23:34,430 --> 01:23:32,460
to just start talking to people and what

2118
01:23:37,189 --> 01:23:34,440
you need will come to you just like in a

2119
01:23:40,070 --> 01:23:37,199
Zelda game so I absolutely love I love

2120
01:23:41,750 --> 01:23:40,080
ending on that note so it's you guys it

2121
01:23:43,130 --> 01:23:41,760
has been absolutely so much fun for me I

2122
01:23:44,570 --> 01:23:43,140
feel like I just got to do an episode of

2123
01:23:46,250 --> 01:23:44,580
weird studies which is like dream come

2124
01:23:48,229 --> 01:23:46,260
true so thank you so much for chatting

2125
01:23:51,470 --> 01:23:48,239
with me and I cannot wait to meet you in

2126
01:23:53,270 --> 01:23:51,480
person in May at Ray Patterson awesome

2127
01:23:55,890 --> 01:23:53,280
thank you thanks for having us guys this

2128
01:24:02,740 --> 01:23:55,900
is this is wonderful can't wait

2129
01:24:02,750 --> 01:24:06,330
[Applause]

2130
01:24:06,340 --> 01:24:21,229
[Music]